Jump from SpaceShipOne?

[motorheaddown 0]

If Joe Kittinger can skydive from the Stratosphere 19 miles up (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/escape/skydive.html), what would keep someone from jumping out of Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne? Since it doesn't reach orbital speeds and floats in zero gravity at the apex of its trajectory, it would seem you could get a "door!" call while weightless. Then, it's an easy 68 miles down to mother earth.

Any takers?

-scott

[KindredSpirit 0]

I'm in.

Do you have a pressure suit I can borrow?

"Kicking gravity's ass since 2003!"

[motorheaddown 0]

I think you get one as part of the $200K ticket price for the ride into space.

-scott

[Channman 2]

No,

Chance of survival is small if at all. You would require a pressure suit to keep your blood from boiling and turning into a gas, and you would need a large chute that could deploy at that altitude to keep you stable.

You would reach incredible speeds as well possibly well above 700 mph with a chute out at that altitude.

But back to the pressure suits, the astronauts us a Assured Crew Escape Suit (ACES) which I believe is certified to an alt. of 102,000 feet anything above this would not protect the man or women inside. These suits are hundreds of thousands of dollars to make and skydiving in a Extravehicular Mobility Unit (EMU) i.e. space suit is not something you want to skydive in and they run well over a million dollars.

But hey what to I know, I'm just a little fella.

[prepheckt 0]

Quote

No,

Chance of survival is small if at all. You would require a pressure suit to keep your blood from boiling and turning into a gas, and you would need a large chute that could deploy at that altitude to keep you stable.

You would reach incredible speeds as well possibly well above 700 mph with a chute out at that altitude.

I don't think you'd want to deploy at that altitude, but you could conceivably freefall to a lower altitude where opening shock wouldn't kill you. But you'd definately need a drogue of some kind to stay stable. That's one of the problems Cheryl Stearns is trying to work around for Stratoquest.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[Viking 0]

you may be sugorbital but your still gonna heat up ALOT as you reenter the thicker parts of the atmosphere.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[Channman 2]

Well my point is, at 343,000' plus you will need to deploy a chute of some kind to keep youself stable or otherwise you will tumble uncontrolable to your death. With very little atmosphere you can not be stable without the assistance of a chute and a very large one at that.

You will not be able to handle the ultimate forces your body will incounter and you will not be able to regain stability unless you had a large drogue chute that is larger than 30' in diameter, possibly much larger.

[motorheaddown 0]

Quote

...You would reach incredible speeds as well possibly well above 700 mph with a chute out at that altitude.

Kittinger reached 716mph during his descent. So, speed doesn't matter; it's net affect of dynamic pressure as a function of air density that counts.

Now, dealing with the physiology of suite pressure in a vacuum is definitely a problem to worry about. I certainly wouldn't want my blood to boil!

-scott

[Channman 2]

I have'nt read much about this Kittinger other than I know he is dead. But did he not have a chute/drogue out of some kind when he reached those speeds?

OK, did alittle reading on Capt. Kittinger and did'nt find anything about a drogue chute being used during his descent.

Hey, I don't know if it can be done or not but the idea is interesting, and the ride would be breath taking.

[Ashtanga 0]

Sebazz1 here on DZ.com jumped from a Space Ship once. he posted about it on here. Here is a copy of the interview...

"My favorite jump was my space shuttle jump. We where right at the edge of the earth's atmosphere when the pilot cut and we opened the cargo bay door. Man what a sureal feeling, the visual was crazy! There where clouds over much of the northern hemisphere but I could see a hole over north central California. I checked my spot and floated out the cargo bay door. I went out front float and another astronaught wen't off the space arm. I didn't wear gloves because I knew I would be plenty warm on re-entry and I was right. Phew it was hot hot hot. So me and the other astronaught turned point after point, transitioning from freefly to belly to freefly. We must have had over 300 points before we broke off at 80,000 feet. I tracked all the way from Panama until I was right over Paso Robles CA. I pulled at about 10,000 feet and glided for another 10 minutes into Star Frams. Man that is one memory I will never forget.

I wish I had video..."

[Channman 2]

Damn, you can't get that kind of ride in a Twin Otter, shame on you for not having video.

[Trae 1]

Asbestos wingsuit anyone?

Skydiving people used to tumble uncontrollably when freefall was a new thing. Some people still do.

Perhaps there is some relevance in designing an astronaut recovery system that allows a freefalling astronaut to fly around instead of just falling down like Kittinger did.

Then they could pick a happy country as their landing site instead of falling into China or N.Korea.



As far as I recall Kittinger used a drogue chute in his drop .

[NickDG 23]

http://www.deadoraliveinfo.com/dead.nsf/knames-nf/Kittinger+Joe

I went to check as I hadn't heard he had died. The above site says he's alive and 77 years old. Maybe you're thinking of Nick Piantanida who was trying the same type of jump in the 1960s when, on the way up, his facemask blew out at 57,000 feet . . .

The reason you may not hear much about Kittinger's use of a drogue is that while he claims the world's highest freefall, if you use a drogue it's not really a freefall. Some references still call it a freefall, but I notice others have changed that and just call it the world's highest parachute jump. I won't take anything away from what he did as it was a hairball thing to do, but one time he remarked, "BASE jumping is nothing but a stupid stunt," and he struck me as a cranky old guy who's been milking a past glory. I can say that as I'm well on my way to being the same thing . . .

I believe the current "real" highest freefall record belongs to a Russian at 83,523.62 feet with a 3000 foot opening.

Cheryl Stearns wants to beat that record by going to 100,000 feet and she's been working on the project for a while now. There was also a project back in the 80s called "Ten Miles High" but that never gained enough financial support. I wish Cheryl luck, but watching her unintentionally go ass over teakettle at Bridge Day is a picture I can’t get out of my head . . .

NickD BASE 194

[billvon 3,070]

>I don't think you'd want to deploy at that altitude . . .

Why not? Your airspeed would be around .5 knots. The problem wouldn't be opening shock, the problem would be getting the parachute to go away from you (and staying below it.)

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

I believe the current "real" highest freefall record belongs to a Russian at 83,523.62 feet with a 3000 foot opening.

G-1-A : Altitude jumps (freefall distance) : 24 500 m ( 80,380 feet)

Date of jump: 01/11/1962
Parachutist(s): Eugene ANDREEV (USSR)
Place: Volsk (Russia)

You are right Nick, he is a cranky old man living in the past. If the AAD had fail he would have go in.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[kevin922 0]

Quote

what would keep someone from jumping out of Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne?

Probably the fact it is going to be hanging in a building starting today. I'm going - hoping to get some good pictures of the opening events

[Buried 0]

wonder how far you would have to go out for a cross country

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[Guest]

Quote

http://www.deadoraliveinfo.com/dead.nsf/knames-nf/Kittinger+Joe

I went to check as I hadn't heard he had died. The above site says he's alive and 77 years old. Maybe you're thinking of Nick Piantanida who was trying the same type of jump in the 1960s when, on the way up, his facemask blew out at 57,000 feet . . .

The reason you may not hear much about Kittinger's use of a drogue is that while he claims the world's highest freefall, if you use a drogue it's not really a freefall. Some references still call it a freefall, but I notice others have changed that and just call it the world's highest parachute jump. I won't take anything away from what he did as it was a hairball thing to do, but one time he remarked, "BASE jumping is nothing but a stupid stunt," and he struck me as a cranky old guy who's been milking a past glory. I can say that as I'm well on my way to being the same thing . . .

I believe the current "real" highest freefall record belongs to a Russian at 83,523.62 feet with a 3000 foot opening.

Cheryl Stearns wants to beat that record by going to 100,000 feet and she's been working on the project for a while now. There was also a project back in the 80s called "Ten Miles High" but that never gained enough financial support. I wish Cheryl luck, but watching her unintentionally go ass over teakettle at Bridge Day is a picture I can’t get out of my head . . .

NickD BASE 194

Having chatted with Colonel Joe about both Piantanida and Fournier, I can tell you that he's very pragmatic about these things. He was a test pilot, not a daredevil. In flight test, one is very methodical, and approaches to problems are done in a painstakingly scientific manner, which is part of the reason Kittinger pooh-poohs record attempts as nothing more than stunts, whereas he was engaged in vital aeromedical research with some of the best minds in the business.

Kittinger is very fortunate to be alive after one of his high-altitude jumps went south in a very bad way, but it wasn't his fault.

His philosophy is "*shrug* - Records are made to be broken." He has no illusions about his being eclipsed one day - he just doesn't want to see it be done for kicks, or just to set a new record, which is understandable, given that projects Man High and Excelsior were both funded by the Air Force.

Unfortunately, it also causes some people to think that he looks down upon or disparages people like Nick Piantanida and Michel Fournier. Not so. He respects them both as aviators, and for their relentless determination in attempting to accomplish with private funds a task that only governments of industrialized nations can normally afford. However, it distresses Kittinger, IMHO, to think that corners are cut and safety is compromised all for some silly record.

This probably explains Kittinger's attitude towards BASE jumping; e.g., that it isn't being accomplished for any legitimate, greater purpose or endeavor.

Try reading "The Long, Lonely Leap", which was written by Kittinger (co-written by Tom Wolfe, IIRC) not long after his 108,200 foot jump: Kittinger is awesome, but his boss, Colonel John Paul Stapp, was incredible. Kittinger's successful test flights were due to his standing on the shoulders of giants.

For further reading about the mind-numbing scientific grind of flight test, please see "Carrying the Fire", by US astronaut Michael Collins (Apollo 11 CMP, Gemini X CP). He flew flight test at Edwards for a while before being selected by NASA in the "3rd Group" of astronaut selectees (his future Apollo 11 shipmates, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, were selected in the 2nd Group).
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[1969912 0]

Thanks markharju,
My boyhood (and forever) heroes include Kittinger, Yeager, Stapp, etc. What Col. Kittinger did was amazing, and was instrumental in developing the safety equipment needed for military aircraft as well as spacecraft. I have not read the book, "Long Lonely Leap" in a while, but was it THE Tom Wolfe that was a co-author? Also, Col. Kittinger is welcome to post here.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Guest]

No, it wasn't Tom Wolfe at all, which is why I had the "IIRC" caveat. It was actually Martin Caidin, who later wrote a novel called "Cyborg" which became the basis of the 70s TV show "Six Million Dollar Man". That story line involved flight testing also.

Sorry 'bout that.

And I doubt Col Joe will ever post here. As far as he's concerned, that chapter of his life ended in 1962, when he made his last USAF high-altitude balloon flight.

He went on to other adventures, including being shot down in Vietnam and being a POW (fortunately, it was in late 1972. He was repatriated along with the rest of the POWs about six months later), and setting some hot-air balloon records.

He's definitely one of a kind.

mh

.

Addendum and correction to earlier posting: Aldrin and Collins were both in the 3rd astronaut group, selected in October 17, 1963. Armstrong was in the 2nd group (Sept 17, 1962). The nine selectees in group two (Neil Armstrong, Frank Borman, Charles Conrad, Jim McDivitt, Jim Lovell, Elliott See, Tom Stafford, Ed White and John Young), were chosen immediately after the Mercury Seven, and were scheduled for Gemini flights.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[rapter 0]

And there's a Drop Zone at Cal-City where you can land with in site of where SpaceShipOne takes off.

Only the good die young, so I have found immortality,

[1969912 0]

A little off-topic, but there was another book I read in grade school about a guy that punched out of a fighter or something and got caught in a thunderstorm for some incredible amount of time. Updrafts, I guess. Beat the heck out of him, but he lived. Can't remember the book name though.

Edit to add: markharju, it sounds like you have talked to Col. Joe. What an honor! Those old-timers really pushed the edge in their research and have saved many lives as a result. Cool.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG