Switching to larger slider grommets?

[DougH 270]

I was hoping that I could solicit some opinions from the riggers here on the board.

I have a canopy with the smaller stainless steel slider grommets. I have mini risers, but they are new and still very stiff. The combination of the two results in good deal of difficulty when getting the slider past the toggles.

I have on several occasions given myself brake fires, no big deal since it isn't during opening, and keep unstowing the excess which will lead to a nice not if I am not careful when unstowing the toggles.

I had a previous canopy that had the larger brass grommets. They were great. No problem getting the slider behind my head, and the slider seemed to stay behind my head better as well.

Aside from durability differences, does any one see a major issue in switching grommets (assuming proper installation).

This problem is annoying enough that I am going to either replace the grommets, or fork the money over for a removable slider / RDS.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[everymansaved 0]

What number is imprinted on the grommet? As far as I know, most canopy mfg's use 8's as standard for either stainless or brass. I've never compared the two side by side, but I have to imagine an 8 is an 8 in stainless or brass. The other thing you might want to think about is that I've read stainless can contribute to faster openings due to their increased weight.

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[DougH 270]

I will have to check the next time I air it out. I know the ID is much smaller than the brass grommets on the PISA Hornet that I used to own. Those slipped effortlessly past the toggles and stowed excess.

Something I did consider. The old canopy had spectra lines, this new canopy has HMA. I think all of the canopies made by the current manufacturer uses stainless steel grommets regardless of the line type, but that doesn't mean it isn't necessary with HMA lines.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[darkwing 5]

"proper installation" needs to include a check to see that the slider stops on the canopy are sufficiently larger than the holes in the grommets.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mjosparky 4]

Start by contacting the manufacture of the canopy. Ask them what size the grommets are and what is the reason for that size. Rigging changes can sometimes cause more problems than they solve.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[hajnalka 0]

You're right - you need to use stainless grommets with HMA/Vectran/Technora etc. lines. With Spectra or Dacron you can use brass.

Stainless are harder to replace; not all riggers have the means to do this. It sounds like replacing them would be the way to go though, since you are having toggle fires and have trouble getting your slider down.

Do you have hooded toggle keepers? If not, that might be a good place to start.

[DougH 270]

Yes, the risers have hooded toggle stow pockets.

I thought that would be the case with the brass versus stainless grommets.

They may just break themselves in an be less of a pain. The older risers didn't do this on the same canopy. They are idental risers from the same shop, so I assume that the risers are still stiff with less give. Of course they could have been made a little beefier in certain areas.

Sparky, yes the manufacture is on my call list before I start hacking and sewing.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[everymansaved 0]

Quote

you need to use stainless grommets with HMA/Vectran/Technora etc. lines

Actually, Brass grommets come standard on the Xaos, (as well as most of Precision's other canopies IIRC), which have HMA lines. The piece about the SS grommets causing faster openings comes directly from them.

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[mjosparky 4]

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Sparky, yes the manufacture is on my call list before I start hacking and sewing.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ficus 0]

Stainless steel slider grommets require an enormous press to set, from what I have been told. Not really a DIY project, even if you wanted to.

Maybe send email to Aerodyne (if it is that Mamba you are still flying) asking for their ideas for solving your problem in general as opposed to how to implement this one solution.

I hold the toggle against the riser as I pull the slider down over it -- you may want to consider doing this as well, just in general.

[RiggerLee 61]

Brass #8's are noticably lighter then SS. This will slow down the opening. The slider will come down a bit later and a bit slower. There is also less chance of those ocasional bangers. Not saying it's gone but there is less chance of "slider rebound", Not wild about the name of the term, with the lighter grommets.
On the other hand in the general sence going to a larger grommet has historicly been known to speed up the opening all other things being the same. Note the canopies with #5 and #7 grommets. However the savings in weight on the slider more then makes up for it when compairing to the SS.
The only real down side is you wiil have to change them out from time to time. Use Slinks.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

[skydiverek 63]

Quote

Brass #8's are noticably lighter then SS. This will slow down the opening. The slider will come down a bit later and a bit slower. There is also less chance of those ocasional bangers. Not saying it's gone but there is less chance of "slider rebound", Not wild about the name of the term, with the lighter grommets.

Well, I thought the same, and contacted PD for a slider with brass grommets. Here is what they told me:

"We do still make a rare and occasional slider for a main canopy with
brass grommets, but it is not the best option. The Stainless will last
the best and function in the same manner as brass. The size and weight are nearly identical. Stainless used to be heavier when they first came out, but that has not been the case for over 10 years now. Brass is actually heavier now."

Also, PD gave me the weight:

Stainless # 25 = 19.16 grams
Brass #8 = 21.9 grams

[hajnalka 0]

Quote

Quote

you need to use stainless grommets with HMA/Vectran/Technora etc. lines

Actually, Brass grommets come standard on the Xaos, (as well as most of Precision's other canopies IIRC), which have HMA lines. The piece about the SS grommets causing faster openings comes directly from them.

Thanks for that! - I'd always heard brass/nickle plate was a strict no-no with HMA (from Icarus people) and I've seen them get chewed up by lines many times in the field. Which is why I tell my people to stick with SS.

Sounds like I need to do some research.

Best,
Dawn

[skydiverek 63]

Quote

Quote

Brass #8's are noticably lighter then SS. This will slow down the opening. The slider will come down a bit later and a bit slower. There is also less chance of those ocasional bangers. Not saying it's gone but there is less chance of "slider rebound", Not wild about the name of the term, with the lighter grommets.

Well, I thought the same, and contacted PD for a slider with brass grommets. Here is what they told me:

"We do still make a rare and occasional slider for a main canopy with
brass grommets, but it is not the best option. The Stainless will last
the best and function in the same manner as brass. The size and weight are nearly identical. Stainless used to be heavier when they first came out, but that has not been the case for over 10 years now. Brass is actually heavier now."

Also, PD gave me the weight:

Stainless # 25 = 19.16 grams
Brass #8 = 21.9 grams

Also, Aerodyne advertises the "super lightweight slider grommets" on their Pilot - can someone from Aerodyne give us their weight in grams from comparison?

[potatoman 0]

The SS will probably last longer, but more difficult to replace. Easier with the brass.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
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Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.