pyrodude 0 #1 June 27, 2008 I have what might be a dumb question. I am new to this sport and have recently started my AFF. I also happened to be at Elsinore on 21 Jun. When doing a pre-jump rig inspection, I note that the silver D reserve handle is attached to the reserve cable only by a little swaged on ball. This just doesn't look very substantial. I would hate to pull my silver for the first time some day and find I have a hand full of handle and the reserve remains in the container. Getting my teeth on the cable and pulling under those circumstances doesn't seem a pleasant solution. Is it possible that the silver could be attached more securely, or is this little swaged on ball one strong mother? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 June 27, 2008 It's one strong mother - if I recall correctly, it has to withstand a several hundred pound pull.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #3 June 27, 2008 >Is it possible that the silver could be attached more securely . . . It's pretty strong. Some mfr's use more than one swage, but one seems to work fine when properly swaged. Here's a thought that might get you worrying even more - your pin is swaged to the ripcord cable the same way. If that fails, even your teeth won't help! That was a problem with a batch of ripcords about four years back; the problem has since been fixed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 June 27, 2008 From memory : on non RSL equipped rigs the Ripcord assembly must be rated to stand a 300lb pull, and double that for RSL equipped rigs. I have never heard of the swage failing on a reserve ripcord.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 June 27, 2008 Bill the problem wasn't with the method of swage of the pin to cable, but rather the quality of materials that that batch of pins was made from. The metal was to brittle IIRC.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #6 June 27, 2008 The swaged on ball is one strong futher mucker. The cable itself is stainless and has a minimum breaking strength of 920lbs. The ball swaging is rated at 80% of the cable strength or 736lbs minimum. If I remember correctly the standard requires at least 600lbs if there is an RSL installed. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #7 June 27, 2008 QuoteI have never heard of the swage failing on a reserve ripcord. QuoteBill the problem wasn't with the method of swage of the pin to cable, but rather the quality of materials that that batch of pins was made from. The metal was to brittle IIRC. You should read this then. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 June 27, 2008 If it wasn't swaged, then the swage can't have failed. If every ripcord were tested, then the fault would have been found.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteI have never heard of the swage failing on a reserve ripcord. QuoteBill the problem wasn't with the method of swage of the pin to cable, but rather the quality of materials that that batch of pins was made from. The metal was to brittle IIRC. You should read this then. . Jan, The problem was not with the swage but with a lack of a swage. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,058 #10 June 27, 2008 > Bill the problem wasn't with the method of swage of the pin to cable, >but rather the quality of materials that that batch of pins was made from. IIRC, some of the ripcords found had either poor or nonexistent swages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #11 June 27, 2008 I worry about: The steering wheel of my car coming off in my hands while I'm going 90 down a winding hill-side road. The front wheel flying off of my bike while I'm riding down the same road. The ball coming off the the end of my reserve cable. In that order. Not that it can't or won't happen, but jeez. You're having a truly bad day if it does.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 June 27, 2008 Quote> Bill the problem wasn't with the method of swage of the pin to cable, >but rather the quality of materials that that batch of pins was made from. IIRC, some of the ripcords found had either poor or nonexistent swages. Swaging is a form of cold forging. In the Capewell incident it was a matter of the metal folding over on itself creating a pocket or void. It was due to worn out dies. The pressure of swaging should create enough heat for the metal to flow and thus be solid in its new form. In a properly done swage the pin/ball will flow into and become part of the cable. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #13 June 27, 2008 Noted and learned. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #14 June 27, 2008 Quote Noted and learned. My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 June 27, 2008 QuoteIn a properly done swage the pin/ball will flow into and become part of the cable. That's got to be an ASSLOAD of pressure...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #16 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteI have never heard of the swage failing on a reserve ripcord. QuoteBill the problem wasn't with the method of swage of the pin to cable, but rather the quality of materials that that batch of pins was made from. The metal was to brittle IIRC. You should read this then. . The swage didn't fail with that 1987 SB. Actually, the pin was not swaged at all and had no tool markings on it...on the rig in question that generated the bulletin . There were two people present when the problem was initially discovered, the owner (a recent US Team member) of the rig and myself. Both of us are riggers and I can tell you there was about 45 seconds of stunned silence when the pin slipped off the end of the reserve cable. Not your typical day in the loft... pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgw 8 #17 June 27, 2008 Quote I worry about: The steering wheel of my car coming off in my hands while I'm going 90 down a winding hill-side road. The front wheel flying off of my bike while I'm riding down the same road. The ball coming off the the end of my reserve cable. In that order. Not that it can't or won't happen, but jeez. You're having a truly bad day if it does. That one happened to me. Come on the quick release wheels! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #18 June 27, 2008 > But on the up-side, you don't need to worry about having another bad day againEvery cloud has a silver lining (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #19 June 27, 2008 Quote ...attached to the reserve cable only by a little swaged on ball. This just doesn't look very substantial. .. This is the same way that the control cables are secured in the jump plane you use and in the airliner you last flew on. I'm not sure whether that will make you feel better or give you more to worry about. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff.Donohue 0 #20 June 27, 2008 "I have never heard of the swage failing on a reserve ripcord." IIRC, there was a fatality about seven years ago at my dropzone as a result of precisely that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #21 June 27, 2008 Quote The front wheel flying off of my bike while I'm riding down the same road. Last Sunday I heard a muffled "BANG!!!" while at home. After checking out the windows for someone with a gun, I started checking around indoors. I found the front tire of my bicycle had blown out the sidewall. The same bike on which I had been doing 40+ mph on a downhill a few hours before.I'm glad my guardian angel likes me."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,422 #22 June 27, 2008 Hi JP, Re: From memory : on non RSL equipped rigs the Ripcord assembly must be rated to stand a 300lb pull, and double that for RSL equipped rigs. It has been going back and forth. Here is the latest version from the PIA website & TS 135: 4.3.2 PRIMARY ACTUATION DEVICE/RIPCORD TEST: (a) The ripcord, including all joints, shall not fail under a straight tension test load of 300-lbf (1337.7 N) applied for not less than 3 seconds. (b) If the reserve is to be static line actuated by releasing the main canopy, the reserve static line, if used, must not fail under a straight tension test load of 300-lbf (1334.5 N) applied for not less than 3 seconds. (c) If the reserve ripcord is to be static lined from an aircraft the reserve ripcord/static line, must not fail under a straight tension test load of 600-lbf (2668.9 N) applied for not less than 3 seconds. Hope that this helps inform people, JerryBaumchen PS) Paragraph (C) is confusing to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #23 June 27, 2008 QuoteHere is the latest version from the PIA website & TS 135: TS 135 is the basis for C23e. I am not sure, but I think that is still in the process of approval. Quote[TS 135] 4.3.2 PRIMARY ACTUATION DEVICE/RIPCORD TEST: ... (c) If the reserve ripcord is to be static lined from an aircraft the reserve ripcord/static line, must not fail under a straight tension test load of 600-lbf (2668.9 N) applied for not less than 3 seconds. ... PS) Paragraph (C) is confusing to me. I have seen some gliders equipped with hard points so the reserve/bail-out rig can be static-lined. Cheers, Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #24 June 27, 2008 QuoteThere were two people present when the problem was initially discovered, the owner (a recent US Team member) of the rig and myself. Both of us are riggers and I can tell you there was about 45 seconds of stunned silence when the pin slipped off the end of the reserve cable. If I were the owner of the rig, I don't think I could have made it 45 seconds without a drink of something that'd grow hair on my chest. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,422 #25 June 28, 2008 Hi mark, Quote TS 135 is the basis for C23e. I only said it is what is on the site. However, you are correct as to the basis for the next iteration. Quote I am not sure, but I think that is still in the process of approval. I understand it is being changed as we breath. Quote I have seen some gliders equipped with hard points so the reserve/bail-out rig can be static-lined. These type of things have been around for decades; but I would not use the term 'reserve' in describing one. That is the basis for my confusion comment. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
