Cypres (tandem) firing in airplane ?

[erdnarob 1]

Is there anybody who heard about a Cypres (tandem) firing in the airplane recently or in the past months. If yes, what happened and where that happened? We have Cypres in some of our tandem rigs at our DZ and we are concerned. Thanks.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[pilotdave 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3243885

Remind your pilots that tandem cypreses fire at 1900 feet and you have nothing to worry about.

Dave

[DougH 270]

Based on your previous AAD posts maybe this thread should have a more appropriate title:

"I want to bash Cypres, can any one post some conjecture and third hand stories about some ones brothers uncle's sisters mother who had a cypres fire in the plane (but only because she was borrowing it because her Vigil fired in her truck)".

Hmmmm that might be a little long no?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[flipper 0]

lmfao....

[erdnarob 1]

I made my preference for the Vigil quite obvious and I gave enough details to explain why. OTOH, I am a rigger since 1977, a DZ safety officer, a member of a technical and safety committee, a pilot, a coach and an instructor. As you can see I am quite involved in the sport and concerned about all of its technical facets. In my life I make sure that my words match my actions, we can call that honesty.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[tetra316 0]

Even in light of all the recalls in France, Australia and Britian? And the fact that Virgil would not voluntarially recall units known to be defective. They had to be forced into it via French government interferance. At least with the Cypresses they were recalled voluntarily by the company.

[chris74 0]

Hey ,
Update your news There is only my country now who forbid the use of the older Vigil 1in the French aircrafts .
Why ? call it safety margin ( for me lobbying )
Blue skies
Chris

[tetra316 0]

It is current. I didn't say any country forbid the use Just that those had recalls after the French got involved in grounding it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,445]

Hi tetra,

I think that statement is based upon a lack of knowledge of ALL of the facts in this matter.

JerryBaumchen

[tetra316 0]

It's based upon the article in the July issue of skydiving magazine. Is the article wrong?

[JerryBaumchen 1,445]

Hi tetra,

I was not trying to bash you. It is, IMO, just that rumors on the internet seem to turn into 'fact' very, very quickly.

IMO, none of us 'knows' all of the facts.

1. Were all of the Vigils defective? I doubt that the parties to the 'grounding' would agree on this.

2. Did the French ground the Vigils? This seems, to me at least, is a contention on just who might have the actual authority to do such a grounding.

It seems to me that the actions taken in France involve some personalities rather than factual information. That, however, is just how I feel about it.

I have read some pretty nasty stuff that I will not repeat because I cannot determine if any of it is factual.

And for the record: there is not a modern, electronic AAD on the market that I would hesitate to jump.

JerryBaumchen

[Winkey 0]

yes i have seen this happen. The circumstances were the student backed out of the jump and student and instructor rode the plane down and at about 2500 feet MSL the pilot put the aircraft into a steep dive and continuing the dive through 1900 feet MSL thus causing the cypres to fire.

The Pilot had forgotten that the tandem cypres fires at 1900 feet instead of the standard cypres firing at 750 feet.

Therefore the cypres did exactly what it was supposed to do at the right altitude and speed

[erdnarob 1]

Thanks Winkey, so far you are the only one to give an answer to my question.
Right now only France with its quite oriented politics ($$$$) influenced by some manufacturer by ($$$) is banning the Vigil I made before July 2006. I am aware of this by having talked to a French official met in Florida in March. That does not affect the Vigil II at all. I had a Vigil I bought in December 2004 and got the proof it was working properly, once at Perris Valley when I had a low pull (see Vigil's save list , I am # 17) and the second time at Rantoul when by mistake the DC-9 pilot, on the ground, pressurized the airplane without leaving a door partially open (at the rear or else). In both case my Vigil I worked as designed. This is not rumours, this is facts. I am a rigger and had a full report of what happened form Vigil's manufacturer. I also downloaded myself the data with my Vigil interface to study the graphs and everything (in both cases) was matching with what my PROTRACK was indicating and what my traditional altimeter gave me.
I am really surprised that on this forum about rigging there are so many answers or statements which are far away from being facts or technically and scientifically oriented. If you are not aware or don't want to get reliable and fair information to the best of your knowledge maybe you should choose another part of this forum. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate beginners asking sincere questions and I always will be eager to answer them. But please get knowledgeable before answering.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[DougH 270]

What does all this vigil drivel have to do with your original question? I thought you were asking about the Cypres model, not bringing up more of this brand bullshit. What is the point of your original question?

You obviously have a very long resume, and as a rigger have packed numerous rigs that contained various cypres models, including the tandem model.

Riggers read manuals. I will conclude that you have read the Tandem Cypres manual before. Hell I have and I am not a rigger, and not a TI.

You are going to have us believe that you have no idea what conditions would cause a Tandem Cypres to fire, and that you actually had a purpose for this thread that wasn't simply more Vigil/Cypres shit slinging?

You knew why a properly operating Tandem model Cypres would fire in a decending plane. Stop wasting peoples time on here.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[erdnarob 1]

As a rigger I have manuals related to the equipment I am taking care of including Cypres I and II manuals and I know their content. Have you realized that on a forum thread sometimes a question brings on another one? This was the case. I was answering to Winkey and added few comments about what is going on related to the AAD's war plus personal exprerience about the Vigil I. Read the precedent posts and you will see what I mean. On the other hand have you thought about being a bit more constructive and helpfull. You seem to be a frustrated person at this moment, then go at the DZ and make few good jumps, this is the best cure for that.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[DougH 270]

Quote

As a rigger I have manuals related to the equipment I am taking care of including Cypres I and II manuals and I know their content.

I will fully admit to being a grumpy bastard today. I should be at a boogie right now, but I got stuck at work instead.

That doesn't change the fact that I think you are shit stirring. Your original post is rather transparent.

You have read the manuals, so you know how you can cause a cypres fire in a descending airplane with a tandem still on board. I would also bet you a few beers that you read the post that was recently made about a tandem cypres that had fired on the way down after a tandem decided not to jump. Suprise suprise, it fired because the pilot and the tandem instructor failed to read and or remember what was in the manual.

We can agree to disagree about your motivations for this post. Regardless, if we cross paths the first round of beers is on me.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[erdnarob 1]

Come on Dough, my original post was not a question about a Cypres firing during the airplane descent at all. You assumed it was. I was asking about a tandem Cypres firing in the airplane in any circumstances.
Dough, if you only knew the dirty war launched by Airtec (Cypres) on Vigil in order to put them out of business you would change your mind a bit. As an American believing in free enterprise you certainly know that if a company is trying to establish a monopoly, this is a crime. This is seemingly what is happening at the skydivers expenses. Competition is good to avoid stagnation, good to innovation, yield better products and better prices. On the other hand, I believe strongly in education and this is my role as a rigger to accumulate data in order to communicate the results to the skydiving community as you can see I do in other threads in this forum.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[rhys 0]

There was a couple of incidents of a cypres 2's activating when they were not supposed to. My friend fell victim to one of these incidents under a tandem at 1000'.

There is a list of potentially faulty units in a service bulletin.

The faulty sensors are made by a swiss company. These sensors are used buy Vigil as well as airtec.

I'm not sure exactly where the bulliten can be found but the airtec website would be the best place to start.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[erdnarob 1]

Thanks. Do you have or could you get more details about it ?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.