Is Jump for the Cause on track?

[NeedToJump 0]

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There is so much of this "what's in it for me" stuff that it is hard to keep track of.
"Do I get a prize for raising more money than anyone else?"

Not everyone is trying to get something for themselves, some people are actually trying to raise money for a good cause.

Just because you are pissed about something doesn't make it OK to bash the good things others are doing.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Paige 0]

I'm not positive but I think they have to raise $2000-2500 each. I don't know if it covers the costs but one would imagine that it has to come close or at least help out a good bit.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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There is so much of this "what's in it for me" stuff that it is hard to keep track of.

That statement is about the height of hypocrisy. I'm not even going to bother highlighting all of the 'I think's and 'I believe's and 'I felt's in your last post. Why not? Because it would take TOO MUCH TIME. Everything must revolve around your thoughts, views, and feelings to be valid? Terribly sad.

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"Do I get a prize for raising more money than anyone else?"

People don't have a right to be proud of their donations? They are taking nothing away from anyone else, but giving of themselves in the fashion that they can feel good about. You should be ashamed of yourself. I sure hope some day you don't have to look in the mirror and see a very bitter and spiteful woman looking back.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Vallerina 2]

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People don't have a right to be proud of their donations?

I think that's where the theory that there are no true selfless deeds because people always get something out of it, whether it be a feeling of self-worth or a prize.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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People don't have a right to be proud of their donations?

I think that's where the theory that there are no true selfless deeds because people always get something out of it, whether it be a feeling of self-worth or a prize.

I guess that makes $100 of research worth less to a woman with breast cancer then, doesn't it?

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[katiebear21 0]

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For those women that can pay for their jumps, meals, motel and jumpsuit, pay your way. Then JFTC will have better numbers. I know of two S. Cal jumpers that are doing this.

I agree with this - probably because I'm one of the people who could afford to pay my own way if I was selected as a participant. And, I would fund-raise completely outside of the skydiving community. While I'm a strong supporter of JFTC, I'm sick of getting hit up for their fundraisers at every event and boogie.

I think that if you had more people paying their own $2500 that JFTC would definitely make more profit, even if it couldn't be a WW. Is the jump about setting a new women's world record or is it really about donating the largest amount of $$$ possible to the Cause?

Something to think about.

Oh, and Paige - great job on the FR.

Katie
Get your PMS glass necklace here

[Vallerina 2]

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People don't have a right to be proud of their donations?

I think that's where the theory that there are no true selfless deeds because people always get something out of it, whether it be a feeling of self-worth or a prize.

I guess that makes $100 of research worth less to a woman with breast cancer then, doesn't it?

Not at all. However, how many people have to get something in order to donate? Do you think JFTC would be as successful as it is if people gave money just for the sake of giving money? My guess is no. That's fine. That's why people have fundraisers. In the end to people who need the money, I'm sure it doesn't matter how people get it. But, that doesn't change the fact that there are many people who won't give without getting something in return.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Not at all. However, how many people have to get something in order to donate? Do you think JFTC would be as successful as it is if people gave money just for the sake of giving money? My guess is no.

Your reasoning is flawed. The people collecting the funds are getting the 'Scooby Snack' of having a dollar amount next to their names. The ones giving the money are for the most part nameless.

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That's fine. That's why people have fundraisers. In the end to people who need the money, I'm sure it doesn't matter how people get it. But, that doesn't change the fact that there are many people who won't give without getting something in return

...well then by your reasoning EVERYONE will always 'get' something from donating money. Even anonymously, they will 'get' the good feeling of helping support a cause. <---There. Does that satisfy all of you 'glass half-empty' people? I really didn't realize there were so many people determined to put a negative spin on anything good in this world.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[billvon 3,076]

>well then by your reasoning EVERYONE will always 'get' something
>from donating money. Even anonymously, they will 'get' the good
>feeling of helping support a cause. <---There. Does that satisfy all
>of you 'glass half-empty' people? I really didn't realize there were so
> many people determined to put a negative spin on anything good in
>this world.

Why on earth is that negative? You feel good about raising money, money gets donated to City of Hope. Why is two good things a negative spin whereas one good thing isn't?

I would also add that there is a third good thing to come of this - a potential women's world record. I'm sure many of the participants will feel good about (hopefully) achieving such a goal. To me, that's a third good thing, not an example that the 'glass is half empty.'

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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>well then by your reasoning EVERYONE will always 'get' something
>from donating money. Even anonymously, they will 'get' the good
>feeling of helping support a cause. <---There. Does that satisfy all
>of you 'glass half-empty' people? I really didn't realize there were so
> many people determined to put a negative spin on anything good in
>this world.

Why on earth is that negative?

It's NOT negative, Bill. That was my point. I was saying that the people that feel a need to degrade any act of kindness are trying to see it this way & I think that's sad.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[billvon 3,076]

>It's NOT negative, Bill. That was my point. I was saying that
>the people that feel a need to degrade any act of kindness are
>trying to see it this way & I think that's sad.

I think you may be seeing negatives where none exist. I saw no one 'degrading' any acts of kindness. Some people like getting something in return for fundraising, whether it's fame, or public thanks, or just the satisfaction that you've helped someone else. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[wmw999 2,544]

There are lots of selfless people out there who give with nothing in return. Maybe to the Red Cross for hurricane relief when they don't itemize their deductions, maybe their time to their church (trust me, that doesn't pay at all).

Sometimes it's bake sales -- you raise more money when people donate cakes, and other people buy those cakes (or whatever) for money. Some of those other people would not give money to the cause without the cake -- they're buying a cake, not donating to the cause.

Anyway, the women on the jump are to raise at least $2500, in whatever manner. I know how the money I've raised was raised, and most of the people either care about me, or itemize their income tax, or both. That probably applies to most of the women on the jump.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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>It's NOT negative, Bill. That was my point. I was saying that
>the people that feel a need to degrade any act of kindness are
>trying to see it this way & I think that's sad.

I think you may be seeing negatives where none exist. I saw no one 'degrading' any acts of kindness. Some people like getting something in return for fundraising, whether it's fame, or public thanks, or just the satisfaction that you've helped someone else. And there's nothing wrong with that.

GRRRRRRRRR!!!!

BILL!!! For the love of PETE! Please go back and read my posts before you respond!!

YES. That was my POINT, that there is nothing wrong with that and people should NOT look for anything to be wrong with people donating!

You are giving me a headache.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[livendive 8]

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I am disappointed that a WWR photo, one that I am in, has been used for such a purpose as to perpetuate the stereotype beliefs that women exist for their sex appeal. I have to explain why I am in a calendar that sexualizes women skydivers when my intent of every WWR that I have been a part of has strived to elevate the status of women jumpers based upon their skydiving skill.

You don't think a WWR sexualizes women by its very nature? Or at least "genderizes"?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

This thread reminds me of the quote, "No good deed goes unpunished."

If you are concerned with the JFTC and TFTC not making enough fundraising money, then continue to make clear suggestions as to how to make the events more successful for the next time around. Eveyone's views should be heard regarding something like this. However, if you are concerned with what the ladies' fundraising event money is being used for, then just ask the ladies. I highly doubt that the people involved in these events have less than honorable intentions with their fundraising.

For the record, I definitely admire the people, who put together both JFTC and TFTC. I know how much time and money is devoted to putting together large events like this, since my own family heads a non-profit charity organization. People who devote a large portion of their private/personal time to this kind of thing usually do so because it's for the good of many less fortunate than themselves. It's definitely a labor of love, trust me.

Also, if people feel good about helping others, there is nothing wrong with that. In my eyes, there are worse things to worry about, than how selfless someone is when donating or fundraising. What matters is that this cancer research might actually help others someday.

[livendive 8]

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If you are concerned with the JFTC and TFTC not making enough fundraising money, then continue to make clear suggestions as to how to make the events more successful for the next time around.

My suggestion would be to make it just like any non-charitable WR, where everyone pays their own way. Need an airline ticket, a new jumpsuit, a hotel room, and 30 high altitude jump tickets? Buy them just like the other large formation WR jumpers do. Want to raise donations for a charity in the process? Solicit pledges from people for a set amount that they'll donate per participant in the largest completed formation during the camp, kind of like people pledge for miles covered in a walkathon. e.g. If someone pledges $0.10/jumper and the largest completed formation is a 100-way, they owe ten bucks.

Jan makes a good point about the costs of this event being out of line. In previous years I've donated directly to City of Hope instead of to JFTC participants, because I wanted my money to go to charity, not to simply help a girl ( at Jan) go do big ways for cheap or free. I'm not sure what mellowed my thoughts on the subject, but this year I've contributed a little bit for two friends. One of them is well over the minimum required, so I get the feel-good of knowing that at least some of those dollars should end up at City of Hope. The other isn't really all that close to reaching the minimum, so she'll be coughing up some of her own money to meet it. Still, it's worth it to see her smile.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skyminxx 0]

Not specifically to livendive but generally to those who feel that this is not a worthwhile way to raise money

[airdweller 0]

Is Jump for the Cause on track?

___________________________________________________________________________

If it gets any money to help fight cancer, then the answer to your question is....


YES

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[TomAiello 26]

Jan,

Just to clarify;

Do you have a complaint with Jump For the Cause?

And if so, is it an issue with:

The organizers?

The underlying cause?

The individuals participating?

Specific activities, such as the calendar (any other things)?


I'm honestly curious. It seems like you do have some hard feelings in there, and for those of us observing from afar, it's hard to sort out just exactly what your complaint is. If you'd be willing to enumerate what you think the bad (and the good, if any) parts are, it'd help make things less confusing for some.

Thanks!

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jenfly00 0]

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Jan,

Just to clarify;

Do you have a complaint with Jump For the Cause?

And if so, is it an issue with:

The organizers?

The underlying cause?

The individuals participating?

Specific activities, such as the calendar (any other things)?


I'm honestly curious. It seems like you do have some hard feelings in there, and for those of us observing from afar, it's hard to sort out just exactly what your complaint is. If you'd be willing to enumerate what you think the bad (and the good, if any) parts are, it'd help make things less confusing for some.

Thanks!

Did you read post #19 in this thread? She clearly, cogently and openly expressed her thoughts and feelings. Whether you agree with them or not, your questions puzzle me. No offense, but it sounds like you are attempting to paint her motivations as petty whereas I read them as a result of sincerely held convictions (it's legal for women to hold such opinions, ya know ...well, in most states )

Specifically, I think the following quote by Jan would have provided information that, if read, would move your questions into the questionable realms of pedantic and rhetorical.

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What I have done or not done in skydiving has little relevance to this. It is my personal beliefs that come into play here. Long before I started jumping, I had strong feelings about what women can and cannot do. I never liked the wanted ads for jobs listed by 'men' or 'women'. I never liked the fact that women were not 'allowed' in the military academies when I was going off to college.

Times have changed, These throw-back events should be stomped out. Some of the things JFTC does or endorses and the calendar in particular, undermines the advances that women have gained in the past 30 years.

I confess to bias as I most thoroughly agree with her. Despite the good will, hard work and best intentions of many involved, events like this continue to restrictively guide the perception of women, who we are, how we are (de) valued and what we are capable of.

I've never met Jan, but in a world of women spend cumulative years of their lives shopping, painting themselves for increased value; searching for the shoes, cosmetics, clothes, surgery, diet that will aide them in their atavistic quest for superficial value, Jan is an island of sanity and hope for our future.

The entire history of cosmetics, btw, is based on a woman painting herself to be more desirable to men, either as brides or (the only other historically significant option) prostitutes. I believe it's way past time to move beyond that. Ladies, wouldn't you sincerely want your daughters to live in a world where a woman's value is not so majorly influenced by her ability to attract men?


Of course, YMMV.

jen

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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I confess to bias as I most thoroughly agree with her. Despite the good will, hard work and best intentions of many involved, events like this continue to restrictively guide the perception of women, who we are, how we are (de) valued and what we are capable of.

I've never met Jan, but in a world of women spend cumulative years of their lives shopping, painting themselves for increased value; searching for the shoes, cosmetics, clothes, surgery, diet that will aide them in their atavistic quest for superficial value, Jan is an island of sanity and hope for our future.

The entire history of cosmetics, btw, is based on a woman painting herself to be more desirable to men, either as brides or (the only other historically significant option) prostitutes. I believe it's way past time to move beyond that. Ladies, wouldn't you sincerely want your daughters to live in a world where a woman's value is not so majorly influenced by her ability to attract men?


Of course, YMMV.

jen

Don't pretend you speak for all women or know what's best for 'us'. And 'no', I don't want my daughter to become a Feminazi. I don't have a penis and I'm happy about it. I don't need this pathetic cry for homogenization of genders to feel adequate. I'm sorry if you do. If you so desperately need a penis there are plenty of websites that sell strap-ons. Your problem is solved.

IMHO.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[jenfly00 0]

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I confess to bias as I most thoroughly agree with her. Despite the good will, hard work and best intentions of many involved, events like this continue to restrictively guide the perception of women, who we are, how we are (de) valued and what we are capable of.

I've never met Jan, but in a world of women spend cumulative years of their lives shopping, painting themselves for increased value; searching for the shoes, cosmetics, clothes, surgery, diet that will aide them in their atavistic quest for superficial value, Jan is an island of sanity and hope for our future.

The entire history of cosmetics, btw, is based on a woman painting herself to be more desirable to men, either as brides or (the only other historically significant option) prostitutes. I believe it's way past time to move beyond that. Ladies, wouldn't you sincerely want your daughters to live in a world where a woman's value is not so majorly influenced by her ability to attract men?


Of course, YMMV.

jen

Don't pretend you speak for all women or know what's best for 'us'. And 'no', I don't want my daughter to become a Feminazi. I don't have a penis and I'm happy about it. I don't need this pathetic cry for homogenization of genders to feel adequate. I'm sorry if you do. If you so desperately need a penis there are plenty of websites that sell strap-ons. Your problem is solved.

IMHO.

I think when you calm down, you'll see that I clearly wrote for no one but myself. My views are in a small but growing minority. We can be women, rejoice in the beauty of a fit, graceful body (just as men can) but to have our human value determined by painting ourselves the approved colors in the approved places at the approved times is bullshit.

Teach your daughters to live as you deem is right, for that's a mother's job. I'll keep trying in small ways (such as this dialogue) to give them a better world to live their lives in.

Let's not fight. I doubt we disagree that women have ...additional societal burdens to bear. I hope we can see that we merely differ in our methodologies.

Peace,

jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I have varied opinions about JFTC... and TFTC

TFTC is well so far great, the participants are raising money for the cause, not money for their tunnel time. TFTC is truely just out to raise money for Breast Cancer awareness and research. Theres no fee that needs to cover costs first. The participants cover their own costs. That is what donating is about. You lose something to gain something. ie I give $50.00 to a charity, I feel better about myself in the respect that I am helping someone, even if that 50 bucks only covers 1/6 th of a wig. I wish more people would see the difference between TFTC and choose to put their money there because of the fact that every penny given goes directly to the cause.

That being said , alot of fundraisers first pay themselves back then the left overs go to the cause. I tend to donate less when I know that my money is going towards someones personal gain that does not need the charity.

When we are speaking of raising money for world record attempts and hotel rooms for the participants, I just cant donate my money. I dont personally feel that people are encourage to donate because women are trying to break a world record. I do think things like calenders, etc are a worth while time effort. Granted I do not agree with the scantly clad look. I think the organization is missing out on money by going the "single male demographic" Sexy is not always half naked or naked.

The world record attempts- These are dubbed Womens world record... well because they are only for women. Donations pay for these attempts... This in my opinion does two things 1. It once again singles women out from the men. 2. Takes quite a bit of money away from the cause. You want to be on a record attempt, then use your money like most every other attempt out there. Women want to be treated equal? How can we be equal when we ourselves are making a distinct seperation from men? Why are men not listed on the website to raise money? Why are women and business able to be participants but men have to go through a woman?

Then there is the fact that any additional money is just that, it is extra money that the program did not have before. I just hope that the organzations find a better way to promote. That is alot of money that could be going into research but instead is going into women upping their jump resumes.

Regardless, I am glad that the skydiving community has taken an interest in the fight against breast cancer.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[wildblue 7]

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I wish more people would see the difference between TFTC and choose to put their money there because of the fact that every penny given goes directly to the cause.

Ummm... if I'm not mistaken (and I rarely am) TFTC just sends the money onto JFTC... so no, not every penny is going directly to the cause. Well, no more or less than if you donated to a JFTC person.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[Vallerina 2]

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I wish more people would see the difference between TFTC and choose to put their money there because of the fact that every penny given goes directly to the cause.

There are quite a few people like me that have raised well over our required amount, so every penny donated to me goes straight to the Cause.

Portia, you are right on. I have never raised 4 grand for any other charity in my life. It's not likely that I could've raised that much by just saying, "Hey, would you guys mind giving money to this one charity?" Heck, when I worked for a Crisis Center, we had United Way charity events that as a group didn't bring in that much money.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning