Is Jump for the Cause on track?

[kallend 2,106]

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>Maybe people around here are scared of 1/2 dressed women.

Amy got some funny responses when selling them at work. One guy thought it was great. "So you want one?" she asked him. "Oh, right, like I could take that home," he said.

>Like is the whole breast cancer research one big organization?

Proceeds go to the City of Hope, a cancer research and treatment organization.

I had much the same thought about the calendar - couldn't take it home or to the office. Nowhere to put it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Shotgun 1]

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I had much the same thought about the calendar - couldn't take it home or to the office. Nowhere to put it.

I haven't seen the whole calendar, but I've seen a few of the pictures and they were not very racy or anything (maybe I missed the racy ones?)... Is it really so bad that you can't take it home? (And I assume that by "can't take it home" you mean because of family that might be offended?)

[tigra 0]

Well said Jen! I may not agree 100% with Jan (or you) but I respect her convictions and her right to express them. And she has clearly stated her concerns about the event more than once. Why bait her or question her motives when they are so clearly stated?

Isn't that the beauty of this world? We CAN disagree about things without making it personal!

[Vallerina 2]

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I most thoroughly agree with her. Despite the good will, hard work and best intentions of many involved, events like this continue to restrictively guide the perception of women, who we are, how we are (de) valued and what we are capable of.

Uhh...are you talking about events like JFTC or events like the calendar? Jan has been on JFTC, so if you have a problem with the event, you will not be agreeing with Jan.

Jan's issue is with the calendar. I can understand having an issue with it.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

you are correct because
JFTC is an organization and TFTC is a fundraiser which donates to JFTC.

this whole conversation bothers me.. everyone has worked so hard.. it seems like many people forgot that JFTC is an organization, and therefore like any other has overhead & costs associated with it. This by no means detracts from it's ability to raise awareness & funds with worldwide participation & exposure.

Fact is.. if they have brought attention IN ANY WAY to the cause, than of course, in response to the original poster, JFTC is on track.

Pink Suits,
Dawn Suiter
JFTC Webmistress

[skybytch 273]

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I agree with this - probably because I'm one of the people who could afford to pay my own way if I was selected as a participant. And, I would fund-raise completely outside of the skydiving community. While I'm a strong supporter of JFTC, I'm sick of getting hit up for their fundraisers at every event and boogie.

That's something I considered when I made the decision to not do JFTC this year. I'm not one of those who can "pay their own way." I don't have rich relatives or much of a life outside skydiving. Skydivers are who I consider my community - if it hadn't been for the generosity of many people in that community (most of whom post here) I would not have raised enough to secure my slot (I ended up over the minimum). This time there are more women on the jumps, and more women posting here. You can only slice the pie into so many pieces.

I know of several women who did not take advantage of the "free" jumpsuit this year. One of them is using my suit from '02, another had her suit from '02 that no longer fit right altered out of her own pocket to use this year.

In case anyone has any misconceptions, the suits are not really "free." What the participants get is a basic RW suit with grippers; options such as booties, pockets, lining, etc are paid for by the participant. I don't know about suit manufacturers other than the one I work for, but JFTC also gets a significant discount on the base price of the suits.

Many SoCal participants won't take advantage of the "free" motel room (they are shared rooms, btw). Instead they'll stay at home and drive to the dz every day.

Having worked with one of the organizers for several years, I know that they do everything they can to keep the costs related to the event as low as possible. They want to see big dollars going to "the cause" as much or more than anyone else does.

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Is the jump about setting a new women's world record or is it really about donating the largest amount of $$$ possible to the Cause?

It's about both. I'm very proud to have been a part of JFTC '02 both because we set records and because our fundraising efforts raised awareness and helped purchase a valuable piece of diagnostic equipment for The City of Hope.

One thing that JFTC does is give jumpers who could not afford to be on a world record attempt that opportunity. I don't think that's wrong, but then again I'm part of that group of jumpers.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Of the $800, how much actually goes to City of Hope for Cancer research?

You get a free jumpsuit, free meals, free jumps, free accommodations, pay a little to management and fundraising expenses and whatever is leftover goes to City of Hope. That's about $424 that goes to City of Hope.

If you bothered to go to the site you'd see that 100% of profits are going to JFTC. We are paying for our own tunnel time and fundraising in addition. No suits or any expenses like the jump here.

Oh, and we're over $1000 now

If you bothered to actually understand what I wrote, I was asking how much of the now $1000 actually goes to City of Hope?

I understand that your $1000 goes to JFTC. How much of that goes to City of Hope?

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I'm gonna just flat out ask, because this didn't get addressed earlier: aren't participants required to raise a certain amount? Presumably slightly over what everything costs? Either by fund-raising or straight out of their own pocket?

Yes participants are required to raise a certain amount. It is over the costs. What JFTC does is state that total number as the number raised for cancer research, when in fact the amount actually donated to another charity is significantly smaller. See http://www.makeithappen.com/wis/bios/jftc.html for examples of the misleading numbers.

Look at the fund raising totals page of JFTC today. It says that Current Progress is $386,273.77. That gives you the impression that nearly $400,000 will be donated to City of Hope. But if you look at the expenses that have to be subtracted from that number you get about $108,333 that can be earmarked for City of Hope.

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You don't think a WWR sexualizes women by its very nature? Or at least "genderizes"?

See Don't Need No Stinkin' Women's Record!

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Do you have a complaint with Jump For the Cause?

I'm honestly curious. It seems like you do have some hard feelings in there, and for those of us observing from afar, it's hard to sort out just exactly what your complaint is. If you'd be willing to enumerate what you think the bad (and the good, if any) parts are, it'd help make things less confusing for some.

I am not doing JFTC for two major reasons:
1. the money trail and the promotion of the money trail
2. the reinforcement of stereotypes

I fully support a Women's World Record in skydiving. I would love to do the dives, but will not because of all the excess baggage that comes along with the JFTC event.
Someone asked me if I could 'look the other way'. I did that at the last JFTC. I won't do it again.

BTW, the reason I made the first post was because of the many people that asked me about JTFC during Nationals. Some people knew I wasn't on the roster and wondered why. Some people assumed I was doing JFTC and I told them that I was not. Last weekend I got another flurry of questions. I'm sure this weekend, I'll get a bunch more questions.

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There are quite a few people like me that have raised well over our required amount, so every penny donated to me goes straight to the Cause.

That's not quite correct. Some of the excess monies raised by some are used to fill-in the deficit funds by others. Look at the Fund raising Totals. You'll see that several women are below the minimum and even below the costs. If those women cannot find the funds during this last week before the event, then excess funds from people like you that have brought in more money may be used to subsidize their costs.

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One thing that JFTC does is give jumpers who could not afford to be on a world record attempt that opportunity. I don't think that's wrong, but then again I'm part of that group of jumpers.

I'm glad you said this. JFTC is based upon the idea of using other peoples' money (OPM) to finance a WR. If you lay that concept upon a socially acceptable fund raising opportunity, people may tune out or not be aware of the parts that may not be what they perceived the event to be.

Just this weekend, a Southern California jumper did not realize that part of his money went to pay for jumps, jumpsuits, motel etc. He has donated $50 to everyone that asked, for a total of $350.00 so far this year. He has since said that he would not donate in the future, unless something changes.

I think my next post will concentrate on education of the suspected causes of breast cancer and the products that people use that increase their body burden.

I'll be around at Perris during JFTC, so if you want to discuss these issues further, I'll be happy to. I can give you many more 'for instances' that range from Norm Kent's strip tease to a bunch of men running around a dirt dive with bras strapped on and panties on their heads. I see these things as very undignified and disrespectful.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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I think my next post will concentrate on education of the suspected causes of breast cancer and the products that people use that increase their body burden.

That would be productive and helpful.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[wildblue 7]

It'll be interesting to see how the numbers turn out. Thanks for posting this - I learned something. I always figured the overhead for JFTC was high, but the national recognition for all the pink ribbon stuff and skydiving in general I thought was good. Interesting.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[Blue2003 0]

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It'll be interesting to see how the numbers turn out. Thanks for posting this - I learned something. I always figured the overhead for JFTC was high, but the national recognition for all the pink ribbon stuff and skydiving in general I thought was good. Interesting.

I have t say reading this thread was a bit disturbing. We had a fundraiser at our DZ and raised over $3000.00 as a matter of fact checks are still coming in. I sent out the original donation today. Many people donated from outside skydiving community. In particular one Tandem jumper (for disclosure she is a friend of mine )raised money at her office and brought it to the drop zone. The DZ manager organized a radio contest. All these things raised awareness of Breast Cancer, as well as that the skydiving community is full of good hearted giving people. I am proud of what our DZ accomplished. Whatever money makes it to the research is more then they would have gotten without JFTC. Maybe I am wrong but only time will tell. I know my Mom a breast Cancer survivor for now was proud of my skydiving community. So many people worked so hard. None of which are on the World Record.

"Cloudy Skies look different through skydivers eyes. Is that a hole in the clouds I see?" Let's get driving!

Blue Skies and Sweet Dreams

[jenfly00 0]

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I most thoroughly agree with her. Despite the good will, hard work and best intentions of many involved, events like this continue to restrictively guide the perception of women, who we are, how we are (de) valued and what we are capable of.

Uhh...are you talking about events like JFTC or events like the calendar? Jan has been on JFTC, so if you have a problem with the event, you will not be agreeing with Jan.

Jan's issue is with the calendar. I can understand having an issue with it.

Yes, the WWR does good in promoting and encouraging women to reach beyond where they currently see themselves. Yes, the WWR is an event based on discrimination. Both statements are true.

From what I read of Jan's postings, she believes women only events have a place as a vehicle for developing and raising feminist consciousness, and balances that with holding an event that is clearly based on discrimination. Historically speaking, I agree with this. Her scale tips one way in balancing the issues, mine tips the other. I suspect we disagree not in principle, but more as a matter of time frame.

I try to balance that historical need with current wants and demands of women today. If we want equal opportunity and treatment, I believe we must practice it. (If not now, when?) At some point in the individual/societal growth continuum, this will be a logical and ethical necessity. Would you disagree?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[bob.dino 1]

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I can give you many more 'for instances' that range from Norm Kent's strip tease to a bunch of men running around a dirt dive with bras strapped on and panties on their heads. I see these things as very undignified and disrespectful.

Unless there's some context to this that I've missed, those antics just sound like the standard jumpers-being-idiots rather than jumpers-being-sexist-pigs.

[kallend 2,106]

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I had much the same thought about the calendar - couldn't take it home or to the office. Nowhere to put it.

I haven't seen the whole calendar, but I've seen a few of the pictures and they were not very racy or anything (maybe I missed the racy ones?)... Is it really so bad that you can't take it home? (And I assume that by "can't take it home" you mean because of family that might be offended?)

It's neither fish nor fowl. It's not a girlie calendar that I might (but probably wouldn't) hang in my airplane hangar, neither is it appropriate to hang in my office where I meet with students, many of them young women. I can assure you that my GF, who, BTW, is a cancer survivor, wouldn't be amused if I hung it anywhere at home.

I didn't buy one because I couldn't think of a single place where I would put it.

If the pictures had been of previous WWR jumps or womens' teams at nationals, women swooping, etc., I would have bought one.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Vallerina 2]

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I try to balance that historical need with current wants and demands of women today. If we want equal opportunity and treatment, I believe we must practice it. (If not now, when?) At some point in the individual/societal growth continuum, this will be a logical and ethical necessity. Would you disagree?

No, I don't disagree. I can understand why people wouldn't agree with a women's world record. Beyond the obvious self-discrimination, I can see why people think that we are saying that we need to have our own record since we can't compete with the men.

When I look at sex issues, I look at it in terms of, "Would I be okay if this were the opposite gender?" For me that's how I look at it....not in terms of society/time/etc. Society is always changing. Plus, where one person lives, their society is vastly different from someone else's.

Would I be okay with men having an all-men-way? Sure! If they raised money for testicular cancer while they were at it, great!

Pretty much, if I'm not okay with others doing something, I won't do it myself.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Mirage63 0]

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I can assure you that my GF, who, BTW, is a cancer survivor, wouldn't be amused if I hung it anywhere at home.

Kallend that seems terribly unfair. She beat cancer and still has to date you....oh life isn't fair.

My calendar sits in my study, were my three daughters look at it from time to time. Other than Arlo my wife didn't even raise and eye. The kids just think it's neat that I know most of these women.

[dgskydive 0]

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I know that JFTC did not produce the calendar, but they do endorse it by providing links to it. The calendar is a great erotica calendar. It is inappropriate for endorsement of a Women's World Record in Skydiving.

You forget the fact that this isnot just about a WWR. This is also about breast cancer. So the calender is very appropriate.

AS far as it being Erotica. I think you are way off base. I have seen worse in woman's magazines.

Why are you so anti JFTC? Do you know the numbers that are on the site are not complete? You are misrepresenting the truth. A lot of the girls on the site have only put up 250.00 bucks and they will pay the rest when they get here for the event. So the totals that you have are not the final numbers. About 2/3 of the money that will be raised isnt on the site because they haven't received it yet. The numbers will be totally different in the end.

If you have issues with the organization that is doing htis, way don't you do your own event and make the partipants buy there own jumpsuits and pay for there own jumps and food and everything else. See how much money they raise for you after paying for all that. About 50, maybe. hey girls raise 2500.00 dollars and then cough up more to jump.

Get your facts straight before you stir the pot. You are making accusations against some very standd up people. If you want to make trouble at least ait until after the event and see how much money they actually come up with befoe you start telling people the wrong info.

Why are you so (sorry) bitter?

Kate, Tony and the rest of the people involved work real hard on this event. You make it seem like they are doing something wrong.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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And I'm fairly certain your numbers are low. I think all the participants agree to raise a certain amount ($2,000? $2500?) and that isn't reflected in the totals yet. I think.

You are right! The numbers on the site are not correct. They are way low. Jan is smart enough to know this. She has been inolved with JFTC before. Did she complain about free jumps then?

Dom

[SudsyFist 0]

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Pretty much, if I'm not okay with others doing something, I won't do it myself.

I find your lack of hypocrisy disturbing.

[Darius11 12]

I can give you many more 'for instances' that range from Norm Kent's strip tease to a bunch of men running around a dirt dive with bras strapped on and panties on their heads. I see these things as very undignified and disrespectful.

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Why do you think your view of the way you “see things” should be everyone’s standard.
Do you really feel that important?

Or do you simply think the whole world should follow your rules?


You need to Chill.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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[Paige 0]

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I wish more people would see the difference between TFTC and choose to put their money there because of the fact that every penny given goes directly to the cause.

Ummm... if I'm not mistaken (and I rarely am) TFTC just sends the money onto JFTC... so no, not every penny is going directly to the cause. Well, no more or less than if you donated to a JFTC person.

Yup you're right Seth. 100% of $ raised goes to JFTC. My event is after the record attempt meaning who knows what year of JFTC the $ will be donated (this year or 2 years from now?). Either way I'm sure they will take out what they need to, to cover their costs. I can't say I agree with this, but I'm trying to do what I can to make some $ for a good cause, as are all participants

I can't change where the money goes but at least I'm doing some good and not just whining publically and belittling people who are doing great things.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[billvon 3,076]

>AS far as it being Erotica. I think you are way off base. I have seen
>worse in woman's magazines.

I have seen worse in PARACHUTIST, which as I recall is the official publication of Jan's organization.

[Paige 0]

Nice post Dawn.

JFTC is an organization and we have to accept what that means. Not a lot of skydivers are business savvy and may not have perceived it that way (or know what that entails for the funds). I agree that it does not detract from the attention and $ we are raising for this great cause

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[dgskydive 0]

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I have seen worse in PARACHUTIST, which as I recall is the official publication of Jan's organization.

You mean like the pics from all the Pink Mafia events. WHich I think are great BTW!

Dom

[billvon 3,076]

>You mean like the pics from all the Pink Mafia events.

Yep. I also recall an ad for a head-mounted camera showing a scantily clad female hanging on a male mannequin that had one of these cameras on its head. The suggestion was clearly that the cool guy with the cool camera gets the chick prize. I imagine it's easier to 'look the other way' at such things when the ad is bringing your organization money.

[jenfly00 0]

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I try to balance that historical need with current wants and demands of women today. If we want equal opportunity and treatment, I believe we must practice it. (If not now, when?) At some point in the individual/societal growth continuum, this will be a logical and ethical necessity. Would you disagree?

No, I don't disagree. I can understand why people wouldn't agree with a women's world record. Beyond the obvious self-discrimination, I can see why people think that we are saying that we need to have our own record since we can't compete with the men.

When I look at sex issues, I look at it in terms of, "Would I be okay if this were the opposite gender?" For me that's how I look at it....not in terms of society/time/etc. Society is always changing. Plus, where one person lives, their society is vastly different from someone else's.

Would I be okay with men having an all-men-way? Sure! If they raised money for testicular cancer while they were at it, great!

Pretty much, if I'm not okay with others doing something, I won't do it myself.

You are a better woman than I, Val. Seriously, I know me and know that if I was offered a chance to participate is something that I thought was awesome and increased social status in a group I value ...I would find a way to be cool with the whole opposite gender standard thing.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".