ToTheTop 0 #1 August 9, 2008 I recently experienced a Tention Knot in my right stearing line. It put me into a violent spin after releasing my breaks forcing a cut away. Why are Tention knots hardly ever discussed as a malfunction, and what is the best way to clear them. If its possible at all. I realize that the easiest way to avoid them is proper packing, but the only time ive heard a discussion about them is in passing. usually in regards to a cutaway malfunction, and usually on TRs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #2 August 9, 2008 Keep your shit straight .. keep the twists out of your brakes .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #3 August 9, 2008 The Strong Tandem Instructor manual recommends pulling the canopy into a deep stall, then throwing the toggles up quickly. Usually this creates enough slack for tension knots to fall out. If this techniques does not solve tension knots - on the second try - toss your second drogue release, tell your student to arch again, peel the cutaway handle, peel the reserve ripcord, arch your legs, pull red and follow through with silver. However, that is doing it the hard way. Far easier to untwist steering lines once a week and keep even tension on all lines while packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in2jumping 0 #4 August 9, 2008 Quote The Strong Tandem Instructor manual recommends pulling the canopy into a deep stall, then throwing the toggles up quickly. Usually this creates enough slack for tension knots to fall out. If this techniques does not solve tension knots - on the second try - toss your second drogue release, tell your student to arch again, peel the cutaway handle, peel the reserve ripcord, arch your legs, pull red and follow through with silver. However, that is doing it the hard way. Far easier to untwist steering lines once a week and keep even tension on all lines while packing. But the hard way sounds much more exciting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #5 August 10, 2008 Sorry for a dumb question. but what exactly can tension knots cause? apart from possible spinning canopy? how do you tell if you've got them? Can it cause you to have to pull one toggle down to fly straight? is it literally a twisted knot in one of the steering lines that prevents it going up and down freely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #6 August 10, 2008 The easiest way I can describe how the are... do a tight daisy chain of your lines then pull them out hard in the packing tent. Oops - the chain gets tight and stops coming out. That's sort of what a tension knot is - since things are under tension the tangle stays in there. If you keep the tension out of your daisy chain it will come unknotted too... If you look up and see a tangled ball of shit in your lines you probably have a tension knot. You might be able to fly with a toggle pulled down. I had this happen on a student rig. I was able to counter with a toggle but then the canopy started fluttering and collapsing (stall) at that point I knew it was time to use plan B. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #7 August 10, 2008 Quote The easiest way I can describe how the are... do a tight daisy chain of your lines then pull them out hard in the packing tent. Oops - the chain gets tight and stops coming out. That's sort of what a tension knot is - since things are under tension the tangle stays in there. If you keep the tension out of your daisy chain it will come unknotted too... If you look up and see a tangled ball of shit in your lines you probably have a tension knot. You might be able to fly with a toggle pulled down. I had this happen on a student rig. I was able to counter with a toggle but then the canopy started fluttering and collapsing (stall) at that point I knew it was time to use plan B. -Michael Ah, thanks michael. So going into deep brakes and then letting the toggles up fast 'might' get rid of them.. and if not plan B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unparagoned 0 #8 August 11, 2008 QuoteSorry for a dumb question. but what exactly can tension knots cause? apart from possible spinning canopy? how do you tell if you've got them? Can it cause you to have to pull one toggle down to fly straight? is it literally a twisted knot in one of the steering lines that prevents it going up and down freely? You should go from the canopy, where the breakes are attatched and then run the line down through your fingers to take out the twists in the break lines. Should have been told this when you learnt to pack. Since the breakes can be free when not set basically the lines can get twisted, once you have enough twists a tension know can form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 August 11, 2008 It's "tension", not "tention". It's "brakes", not "breaks". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #10 August 11, 2008 Quote It's "tension", not "tention". It's "brakes", not "breaks". I suppose next you'll be telling us it's "flare", not "flair"."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 August 11, 2008 Quote I suppose next you'll be telling us it's "flare", not "flair". Yeah, that too! You can flare with flair, but not flaring at all definitely lacks flair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blink 1 #12 August 11, 2008 Don't forget recovery "arc" instead of "arch" ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #13 August 11, 2008 A tension knot is likely to happen when lines (steering or suspension lines) are slack during deployment. The line get a wip effect and can make a knot, simple or more complicated. The best way to avoid it is to have the right size of rubber band tight enough or double those rubber bands. The tension knot on a steering line makes it shorter then a spin occurs. Recently at the Summerfest I got for the first time a knot in my steering line but with my toggle involved. I have the VECTOR III trulock brake system which is quite good to protect you from that kind of problem. But what I remember is that after opening I release the brakes and let them go probably too fast in order to collapse my slider. What I think which happened was that the right toggle went thru the loop made by the extra of steering line and made a knot around the upper channel keeper located behind the right rear riser. Since the toggle was near the top, no spin occured but when I came to pull the right toggle I was pulling at the steering line and on the rear right riser as well and I had to apply a lot of force. Since my Katana wasn't turning I decided to land it that way. I managed to do the best possible flare I could and landed slipping in the grass softly. Conclusion: When releasing the brakes, take one second to put your hands at the right place making sure the extra of steering line is out of the way and do not let go the toggle to fast before collapsing the slider. A good lesson for me.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #14 August 11, 2008 What they said. IMHO tension knots used to be much more prevalent than now. I personnally attribute that to the change from dacron to microline. Microline (ski rope) is slicker than dacron. My personal opinion is that what might have stuck as tension knots in dacron now slip out of microline. I have an old standard VHS recording of one of my malfunctions (from 1985) that shows the tension knot very well. My first malfunction was also a tension knot. (2 of 4) Quite often they fall out once you cutaway and you can find them when you recover the canopy. There not talked about separately because there isn't a whole lot to do to prevent them or clear them, they're another partial malfunction and you know what to do for that. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #15 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote It's "tension", not "tention". It's "brakes", not "breaks". I suppose next you'll be telling us it's "flare", not "flair". Just don't land near the hanger...er,..hangar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #16 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote I suppose next you'll be telling us it's "flare", not "flair". Yeah, that too! You can flare with flair, but not flaring at all definitely lacks flair. Ya' beat me to it!Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I suppose next you'll be telling us it's "flare", not "flair". Yeah, that too! You can flare with flair, but not flaring at all definitely lacks flair. Ya' beat me to it! Ya snooze, ya lose. There there are also the canopy line attachment flares like on some older chutes. And also pyrotechnic flares as jumped on the cover of Parachutist recently. With the word "flare" having so many different meanings in this sport, it's understandable that it could be confusing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #18 August 12, 2008 Yeah, Buddy! You got that right! A flare by any other name... would still, be a flair! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #19 August 13, 2008 QuoteWhy are Tention knots hardly ever discussed as a malfunction I guess that depends on how much attention you pay to your training, where you learn, and who teaches you. I was taught from the very beginning that tension knots were one of the most common malfunctions and what to do to help avoid creating them.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
