reserve pull

[goldwings 0]

The situation was: couldn't pull my main as had a very surprising shoulder problem in freefall on my 14th jump and I couldn't pull my main as couldn't move my right arm back at all, pulled my reserve without cutting away as there was nothing wrong with the main and just didn't feel at time it was necessary, but when I pulled the reserve handle on a student rig, the handle didn't come detached. I was still tugging at it with all my strength even when the canopy had just inflated. All was well with the canopy so I didn't worry about it/question it at the time as I didn't know if it is meant to come away or not, I just assumed it should of done.

So is it supposed to become detached or not and if it was then why what would cause it to stay attached?

Have recently got my A license now(eventually!) and had to re-do my AFF after a shouder op so with just 28 jumps under my belt that unanswered question still niggles at me.

Thanks guys!

GoldwingsX

[jtnesbitt 0]

Wow....your best source of what happened in that situation should have been your debriefing. I know you said you had 14 jumps so if you werent doing a coach jump I assume you were unsupervised but didnt someone at your DZ speak with you after your reserve ride? What did the rigger say when you brought everything back and the handles were still in place? Was this an AAD fire?

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

The situation was: couldn't pull my main as had a very surprising shoulder problem in freefall on my 14th jump and I couldn't pull my main as couldn't move my right arm back at all, pulled my reserve without cutting away as there was nothing wrong with the main and just didn't feel at time it was necessary, but when I pulled the reserve handle on a student rig, the handle didn't come detached. I was still tugging at it with all my strength even when the canopy had just inflated. All was well with the canopy so I didn't worry about it/question it at the time as I didn't know if it is meant to come away or not, I just assumed it should of done.

So is it supposed to become detached or not and if it was then why what would cause it to stay attached?

Have recently got my A license now(eventually!) and had to re-do my AFF after a shouder op so with just 28 jumps under my belt that unanswered question still niggles at me.

Thanks guys!

GoldwingsX

Do you know what type of rig it was?

There is one rig on the market that can have an RSL system act as a 'ripcord stop' in some situations.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[hopnpopper0429 0]

Was your shoulder dislocated?

If reserve is packed correctly, all it takes for it to come out is for the pin to come out of the loop. What is that, about 1 - 1.5 inches of motion?

When you'll be leaving your rig for repack, check with your rigger to make sure its ok and pull your reserve handle. Just be aware that it will fire with force behind you so point your back (rig) in a safe direction. That should give you a feel for what it should be like deploying your reserve.
The first time I've done that I had over 200 jumps and wish I would have done it sooner since my life could depend on it on any jump.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

If reserve is packed correctly, all it takes for it to come out is for the pin to come out of the loop. What is that, about 1 - 1.5 inches of motion?

That's once the slack in the cable is taken up. And there can be a LOT of slack...

[JohnDeere 0]

Is it a Vector container? If you look at the size of the reserve pin and the size of the cable housing you will see that it can not go through there.

Edit to add

I got a PM and realized i did not put all details in my post that i should have! My reserve ride was a PCIT, therefore i did not have anything to cut away. The eyelet pulls the pin and the pin stayed in the eyelet! By design the pin is held in place by velcro. The velcro should hold the pin in place and allow the eyelet to come off the pin after the pin has been pulled. My velcro release and pulled the pin with it, not allowing the cable to come all the way out!

I left the OP as it was so anyone who had already read it can notice my mistake! Thanks RiggerPaul!!!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[BUBLHED 0]

I thought the same thing was going to happen to me. I had a shoulder dislocation during a RW jump. Fortunately I was able to "pop" it back in before decision height, but i did have two other jumpers chasing me.( Thanks Guys) Anyway, The reserve ripcord should pull free, but if it pulls the pin and lets the canopy clear the container that's all we really need right? At least you had no chance of losing your handle.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

snip The reserve ripcord should pull free, but if it pulls the pin and lets the canopy clear the container that's all we really need right? At least you had no chance of losing your handle.

uh-huh....

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[BUBLHED 0]

But that is with Ripcord mains. On the reserve in most instances the main is already gone, or at least not going to open. (baglock, pc in tow) In the event of a cypres fire the ripcord and pin stay where they're at. (basically, lets not get into a pissing match of course it moves.) As far as I know there has been no situation in which the ripcord prevented the reserve opening after a cypres fire so if it doesn't clear the rig after pulling the pin all should be good. Maybie I'm wrong but I don't see the problem.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Is it a Vector container? If you look at the size of the reserve pin and the size of the cable housing you will see that it can not go through there.

I think you are mis-characterizing the failure mode on RWS/UPT systems.

I believe that the 'reserve pin' that you mention is the pin that is attached to the RSL lanyard. It does not and is not supposed to go through the reserve RC cable housing.

The RSL reserve pin is routed through an eyelet on a terminal swage at the end of the reserve RC handle and then through the closing loop for the reserve container.

The reserve RC with the terminal swage does pass through the housing, provided the RSL pin is not caught on the housing in a perpendicular fashion. IOW the RSL pin must clear the eyelet on the terminal swage in order to allow the reserve RC to be pulled through the housing. If the RSL pin does not clear the eyelet then a potential RC stop exists when the eyelet is pulled up to the entrance of the housing.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[JohnDeere 0]

Look at my post again i corrected it to be more informative.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[mjosparky 4]

From this thread it seems very clear that the average skydiver needs to learn a great deal more about how gear works. It is not rocket science and takes very little time. But that time spent may save your life.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[goldwings 0]

Am very new to this website and just saying thanks for the yet more info I'm sponging up on the sport.

Yes I was doing a solo(consols)

No, the AAD didn't fire

And hope not to be under a reserve again, but the plus side it was comforting to know I could think straight in freefall when the unexpected happens and act quick enough.

[HellRaiser 0]

Why is this thread still in the incident forum?

[DiverMike 5]

I guess it is up to the moderator to determine if a reserve ride is an 'incident' since this is:

A forum to report, discuss and learn from actual incidents, fatal and non-fatal

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[HellFreak 0]

At 14 jumps, was student/rental gear? This might explain why it has the handle stop installed...

Two words that get you in trouble, ALWAYS and NEVER

[councilman24 37]

If it does have a handle stop you should find a new dropzone. Really.

These have been "banned"/not used on mains for decades. NO reserve ever had one intentionally that I know of and shouldn't now.

I very much doubt this is the case. (I hope)

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dragon2 2]

On my previous rig (PdF Atom) the factory rsl setup DID prevent the handle from passing completely through the housing. Same goes for our Sigma tandem rigs, they too have 9-shaped pins. What's the problem with that? Other than the fact that after you let go of the handle you could loose it should the cable slip off the pin, so the 2nd time round I wrapped my cable around my cheststrap a few times to prevent that

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[councilman24 37]

Not familiar with the Atom but with the sigma you are still supposed to be able to pull the ripcord cable all the way out. The yellow velcro above the 9 min is supposed to, if pulled for a total, to hold the pin after it clears the loop, rotate it so that it comes out of the eye on the end of the cable and allow the cable to pull free throuhg the housing. But it CAN act as a ripcord stop and the reason I don't recommend RWS RSL's.

Ripcord stops are bad for all the reasons linked to above. Essentially you may believe you've pulled the pin when you haven't because the ripcord doesn't completely come free.


BTW most emergency procedures used to include throwing away the handles. And I believe they still should. For two reasons. One to prevent tangling, rare but not unknown. And two to ensure that they truly have been pulled.

And yes I've held on to my handles in the past. I've also thrown them away. Particularly when my reserve wasn't opening and I wanted to make sure it was gone!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dragon2 2]

On the factory PdF setup the pin(s) is not going to rotate, it's going to hit the housing horizontally and thus stay put as long as there's some tension on it.

I actually have no clue if the double sigma pins will rotate if pulled, interesting if they do, will take a closer look
I've read threads here people who've thrown away their handles BEFORE the pin was pulled, so teaching to throw away your handles doesn't seem like a save-all. Anyway I didn't get taught to throw my handles, although must admit I kept tugging at my ripcord for a while before realising my reserve was already out and flying

Anyway I find it hard to see a setup like this as a problem, probably because we have so many Atoms here. It's not a "ripcord stop" perse to prevent people from losing handles, it's the result of a better IMO RSL setup because the RSL pulls the pin and not the cable. Then again, I'm no rigger of course.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[chuckakers 425]

Another case of a jumper that doesn't know how his gear works. That's about the millionth one this month.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[RaXz 0]

I am really glad you survived it, but besides that I am questioning some things as a noob.

Do I understand it correctly that you've had your shoulder dislocated a while ago, and in the mean time you have had a shoulder operation and did AFF again. And you're still are jumping with this question? I really can't imagine that you haven't had the time to ask around at your DZ. Then it is really natural that this niggles (huge understatement?) you.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

A...but the plus side it was comforting to know I could think straight in freefall when the unexpected happens and act quick enough.

And for this you are to be congratulated. Great confidence-builder, eh?

Now...Don't jump again until you learn how your gear works. You have good people at Headcorn who will help you, I think...or just maybe you weren't listening.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[docjohn 0]

I believe that the 'reserve pin' that you mention is the pin that is attached to the RSL lanyard. It does not and is not supposed to go through the reserve RC cable housing.

The RSL reserve pin is routed through an eyelet on a terminal swage at the end of the reserve RC handle and then through the closing loop for the reserve container.

The reserve RC with the terminal swage does pass through the housing, provided the RSL pin is not caught on the housing in a perpendicular fashion. IOW the RSL pin must clear the eyelet on the terminal swage in order to allow the reserve RC to be pulled through the housing. If the RSL pin does not clear the eyelet then a potential RC stop exists when the eyelet is pulled up to the entrance of the housing.

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