stepping into and out of a student rig with B12 snaps

[peek 21]

I had a student that did most of their (AFF) training at another dropzone tell me that they wanted them to step into and out of the leg straps on their student rig that had B12 snaps on them rather than use the snaps.

Has anyone ever heard of this, or know of any reason why a dropzone would want their students to do this?

[AggieDave 6]

I've seen this a couple of times and there were a couple of reasons. The first was keeping the student from twisting the leg strap while hooking the leg strap back up. The second was to prevent the student from unhooking the leg straps and leaving them that way for the packers. The swinging hardware can dislocate a knee cap very easily.

I don't think those reasons were very good and that a little extra care by the instructors and those problems no longer exist.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnRich 4]

It sounds like maybe they just want them to get used to donning their rig the way that most rigs will require in the future, which don't have B-12 snaps. Or maybe they're worried about them twisting the leg straps when they clip them. But that's easily caught in the gear check. Yeah, sounds a little strange.

[jimjumper 25]

On some rig designs the B12 is snapped onto what is essentially a hip ring on the main lift web. It is difficult to reach one handed and hard to see if its latched correctly especially for a student. Also as previously noted they will wack your leg if left unhooked.

[Baksteen 84]

This is the case at my DZ as well - so yes, I heard about it.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[matthewcline 0]

As others have said maybe it is just to get used to the thread through style leg straps most up jumper rigs have.

I have seen a B-12 left unsnapped then in the rough handling of the rig the snap grabbed the reserve rip cord, then the rig needed to canopies re-packed.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[riggerrob 643]

Mr. Peek,

I do not disconnect B-12 snaps when I don or remove tandem rigs.
One less thing to worry about. That is because I am lazy and hate seeing mis-routed B-12 snaps. A (butt-high) table helps.

When I assist students in donning
(B-12 equipped rigs) I lay the leg straps on the floor and pull the rigs up over their shoulders. Similarly, I show them how to slacken leg straps after landing. Back in the hangar, I tell them to undo their chest straps, gently lower the rig to the floor and walk away.
Funny, when I taught a rigging course in Quebec last year, none of the young guys had ever seen a B-12 snap before.

Sorry, but I consider B-12 snaps to be "old school" and I am old and lazy. I can dress students quicker without B-12 snaps.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

It sounds like maybe they just want them to get used to donning their rig the way that most rigs will require in the future, which don't have B-12 snaps.

This is why I do it like that with the B12-equipped student rig.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[councilman24 37]

Quote

Sorry, but I consider B-12 snaps to be "old school" and I am old and lazy. I can dress students quicker without B-12 snaps.

Rob,

Old and "old school" go together!

But does not uncliping the B-12s mean that you don't check to the gates are closed on each jump? I expect not but wonder if your skipping that step.

Being old and fat I sometimes miss B-12's. Really miss quick ejectors, although those did make me nervous.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 643]

We still teach FF students to "click" gates on B-12 snaps during every pre-flight/pre-donning inspection.

I am just too lazy to clip and un-clip them for every jump.

On a similar note: our oldest tandem student harnesses have B-12 snaps and are gathering dust on the back shelf because young tandem instructors refuse to use them, calling them "safety hazards." Even if only one or two tandem students - stupidly - undid B-12 Snaps (years ago, at another DZ, etc.) that is too high a risk for me.

[riggerrob 643]

"Being old and fat I sometimes miss B-12's. Really miss quick ejectors, although those did make me nervous.

[FTP_07 0]

That's odd that some have never seen B12 snaps. I've been to a few dropzones and have seen them on the rigs that students use.....so how is it that they had never seen B12 snaps before? I can understand if they were at a dropzone that never had the snaps on any gear, but I guess I just assumed that all dropzones had at least a few rigs that had the B12 snaps. Strange.....

[Cari 0]

Pardon my idiocy, but what are B12 snaps?

[IanHarrop 42]

Check this page (down a bit) for a picture.

http://www.softieparachutes.com/html_files/custom_options.html

I like my B12 snaps on my leg straps. I don't have to wiggle into my rig.... I'm old!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Cari 0]

OOhhh....thanks! :)

[danielcroft 2]

The first rig I used off student status (loaner) had B12 snaps, I quite liked them. No one told me but I always made sure that they were straight when attaching them, seems pretty obvious to me? I actually liked not having to step into the leg straps.