NSEMN8R 0 #1 July 28, 2005 I stopped by the dz yesterday and there were notices posted on all the doors that said: " This property has been seized by and is under the custody of Rutland Charter Township in accordance with state law...." It went on with something about personal property taxes and a warning not to "remove or disturb any property". There was also a notice of a public auction to be held next month in the local paper today. The DZO is at Oshkosh this week so I don't know what he's planning to do, but I'm betting when he gets home he'll tear those notices down and open for business as usual. So my question is if he opens, can I get in trouble for working there or is it ok for him to use the place while it's "in the custody" of the township? Also, if it is shut down, what about everybody's personal gear and stuff that's in there? Think they'll let us just take it? They have a ton of tandems scheduled this weekend and I could use the cash, but I don't need to get in trouble for trespassing or anything. Thanks for any opinions on this. Tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #2 July 29, 2005 f that get your gear! note I am not a lawyer...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #3 July 29, 2005 get your gear AND any gear that belongs to the DZ if you think it hasnt been inventoried. from my understanding of tax laws (which aint much) personal property stored there should be held for reclamation by the owners, but anything belonging to the DZ is subject to public auction to pay the back taxes. just think what the DZO would owe you if you "rescued" a few student and tandem rigs.... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hemphog 0 #4 July 29, 2005 Take the money and run! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Ya we'll rape the local objects, and maybe do some jumps too!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #5 July 29, 2005 Contact a lawyer on this one. If the issue has gone this far don't look to be jumping there once the plane and tandem rigs are sold at auction. And if the notices are up... they tend to have pictures of what was there for later accounting.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feeblemind 1 #6 July 29, 2005 Good Grief, If the jump plane is there, find a pilot and move that TOO!! Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #7 July 29, 2005 Well, I heard somebody found a way in there last night and rescued most of the personal gear plus a couple of tandem rigs. This sucks. Looks like there's going to be a bunch of homeless skydivers up here... Maybe somebody cool will buy the place and keep it open? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #8 July 29, 2005 Quote Well, I heard somebody found a way in there last night and rescued most of the personal gear plus a couple of tandem rigs. Food for thought: I realize taxes suck and jumpers need to stick together, and totally understand getting your own gear out of there,... but risking jail for "emancipating" tandem rigs because someone else didn't pay their taxes, that's a little much. The tax man is a little short sighted too, because he could be flexible and let the dz continue to operate and employ skydivers while garnishing part of the revenue to pay the tax bill. If he finds out that friends of the dzo have snatched some of the business assets, he probably won't be too inclined to negotiate and can be a real pain in the ass for the dzo for years to come. Just a thought._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diversgodown 0 #9 July 29, 2005 Burn it down, collect insurance money---pay taxes---and rebuild slowly.... But then again I'm sitting in Fed prison typing this.. NO BUBBA NOT AGAIN!!!! ***Glory Favors the Bold*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #10 July 29, 2005 If it was my personal shit stored in there, I'd go in and get it. Period. Its mine and they have no right to withhold it from me.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #11 July 29, 2005 Quote plus a couple of tandem rigs. It sounds as if the taxing authority has levied the assets of the dz. By taking the tandem rigs your friends are committing a crime, possibly a felony based on the value of the rigs. If these guys are your friends, tell them to put the gear back immediately. The tax man can stop you from jumping. The tax man can put you in jail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #12 July 30, 2005 This sounds more like a property tax forclosure to me and not an income tax problem. The fact that the property has been seized by a Township and not the IRS. If it is a property tax deal then they are only interested in the land and getting enough for it at auction to settle the tax debt. Normaly this sort of thing takes years to settle so I wouldn't be to worried yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0 #13 July 30, 2005 what state is this in. i have a book that has some states laws on property tax forclosures. but if it is property tax forclosure then they only want to auction the property off to gain the property taxes that are owed. now if someone was cool then they would go to the auction and bid the highest bid that usually just covers the back taxes owed which could be a couple years worth and reopen with less cost than the original DZO. but if it is already in the forclosure process then it shouldnt be more than 30 days till its auctioned. let me know what state it is and ill look up to see what kind of tax forclosure process u have. Texas has a right of redemption law. basically a person that bids and wins pays the amount and the owner still owns the property. if its not declared homestead or Agriculteral(sp?) then the owner has 6 months to pay u the amount u paid + 25%. if its has the homestead or AG exemption then they have 2 years but its 25% for each year that passes. if they dont pay the amount + 25% in the alotted amount of time then u get the DEED free and clear. but of course u have to pay ur taxes not to many states offer right of redemption. its usually actioned off and deed handed over to winning bidder. But if i had some cash that i could spare id be all over an investment like that!!! cause id jump for free anyway edit: im going off ur profile and guessing its in michigan. Im looking at some of the Tax appraisal districts. what county or "area" is the property in. im looking to see what the tax appraised value is. If u have a address that would be fantastic in the search!! and then i could hopefully find the amount of back taxes cause its all public record its just a matter of searching. Im also looking for the state tax laws. maybe someone that is into investments and if this pans out to be a good one then they could purchase it and keep it going. that would be cool! oh and from what it looks like the township is the determining party. i guess thats what they call a county in Michigan...??? ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD! DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0 #14 July 30, 2005 ok i found the info needed. it has multiple links that lead to more info. if u could get me the address of the property i could probably see how much the back taxes are. I still have to read through the rest of the information on this site but i think everything needed is there! http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10368-23142--,00.html {and im not a laywer} nor do i want to be! no offense LawRocket Im into investing stuff. so i educate heavily! so u may want to ask a laywer if ur looking for something other than this. ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD! DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,426 #15 July 30, 2005 " . . . no right to withhold it from me . . ." Quite a few years ago the Feds and the local sheriff arrived at Sheridan Sky Sports with a court order. If you were on the dz with YOUR gear, it was gone. Yup, the court gave them the right to seize every piece of parachute equipment on the dz property. All the personal gear was eventually given back but it took some time and a fair amount of paperwork. Court orders can have all kinds of things in them. I would not recommend resisting one (and, yes, my son is an attorney). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #16 July 31, 2005 Yes, It's in Michigan. Here's the add in the paper. It has the address too. Thanks for looking this stuff up. I jumped there all day yesterday and the cops never showed up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salsa_John 0 #17 August 2, 2005 Quote Well, I heard somebody found a way in there last night and rescued most of the personal gear plus a couple of tandem rigs. This sucks. Looks like there's going to be a bunch of homeless skydivers up here... Maybe somebody cool will buy the place and keep it open? yes, like SkyRide.....NOT "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0 #18 August 2, 2005 it looks like they are posting the minimum bid(taxes owed) there. but as for the tax appraised value of the property... im having trouble getting one. I have tried going to the Barry county tax appraisal site, but for some reason its not letting me find any records with that address. but i find it on the map on mapquest so i know its there. I think there site's system is just a lil screwy. Im guessing that the property it sef has to be worth more than that amount. the county only wants its tax money. so they are willing to give it up for an amount that just covers what it needs to cover. here is a link to the barry county tax site: http://www.barrycounty.org/ParcelData.htm and here is a link to the site that has almost every county in the US. http://www.reiclub.com/tax-appraisal-district/Michigan.html I wish i could find more info! Still think that if someone picked up the whole property for a decent price at the auction then it would be business as usual. Hope something like that happens! Best of luck! ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD! DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark135 0 #19 August 3, 2005 well, the building is on a 25yr lease. not even sure why he is paying property taxes unless its part of the lease deal. the tandem rigs were not the property of the dzo, rather someone elses who was leasing them to the dzo. besides, this dz would best serve the public by closing anyways. Oh the horrer stories i could tell._______________ "It seemed like a good idea at the time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #20 August 3, 2005 I don't know how it works in Michigan, but the sale of the property typically affects only title. Once the place is purchased, the new owner usually has to go to court to evict whomever is on it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plowdirt 0 #21 August 3, 2005 Damn brother, I'm sorry to here this. Apperently the tax man hasn't jumped with you, or hung out with you. Find them and take them out for some NSEMN8ING FUN. I highly recomend for all to do. I'll be missing you this go around, I'll catch up. Peace. E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpnfun2 0 #22 August 4, 2005 Quote Yes, It's in Michigan. Here's the add in the paper. It has the address too. Thanks for looking this stuff up. I jumped there all day yesterday and the cops never showed up. Hey Tony dude Shall we now discuss the nice boss man's response to the loyalty of the very last of the qualified and beyond loyal staff?? Prolly not a good idea. I'm SO glad yer bolting with a few others to greener pastures. So glad. No one should have to deal with not only the abuse, but the risk of having their personal gear confiscated to pay a dzo's bills! Very not good Karma. What goes around really does come around again. Be that good or bad. BS, Sue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #23 August 4, 2005 Yup-- You guys were right. There is life outside of Hastings. I was pretty bummed about all this at first, but it looks like it will all work out for the best. I found a kick ass new home dz with a big plane and lots of really cool people. And the DZO there isn't a bi-polar jackass. They even let their staff make fun jumps! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #24 August 4, 2005 Quote besides, this dz would best serve the public by closing anyways. Oh the horrer stories i could tell. Come on now Mark, that's not really fair. I'll agree that the guy's a butt cork, but he has a better safety record that most other places I've jumped. 20 years without a fatality has to say something. Also, I've never seen better 182's and the facilities there are the best in the state by a loooooong ways. Padded indoor packing, pool tabe, foosball table, video games, really nice hot tub... He would best serve the public by letting someone with a personality run the place for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark135 0 #25 August 4, 2005 Quote I'll agree that the guy's a butt cork, but he has a better safety record that most other places I've jumped. 20 years without a fatality has to say something. C'mon Tony, get yer head out of the sand. almost tossing me out of the plane because i called a go around and he needed to look for himself by putting the plane on its wing. pencil packing the student reserves. using cypress's that are beyond thier service date. using fxc's that havent been recalibrated for years. using f-111 mantas that have more than a thousand jumps on them using tandem rigs that have not had any of the mods done to them. Hell Tony, that one tandem rig had a big ass rip in it right into the reserve tray. using unqualified instructors shit man the list goes on. this dz holds the record for most students who have broken somthing. mostly due to canopies that were ragged out when i was a student let alone 10 years later. Having to sit there while manifest screams and yells and cries when I refuse to take a student up due to unsafe conditions. then another guy we will call "spinner" says "I'll do it" where is the s and ta? oh yeah its also the owner who has holed up in his hanger becuase he is too depressed to deal with the real world. screw that man I dont need that crap. I took it longer than anyone else exept d.a.p. No fatalities? pure luck. look at the fatalities at the other michigan dz's. they had nothing to do with the dzo or the training or anything else. they were just accidents. The only good thing is that I do agree they are the best 182's bar none. and great facilitys. too bad he couldnt stick some of that money into safe equipment. I would have rather seen new student gear than the king air which of course he lost because why? hmmm refusing to make the payments. sounds familiar huh. We will sit down at the wffc and get totally hammered while i convince you of the greater truth. It wont take long so drink fast!_______________ "It seemed like a good idea at the time" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
