Whatever happened to 180 day repacks?

[derrickiv 0]

Has this been decided upon yet? Did I overlook any announcements?

[JohnRich 4]

And while we're at it, I have a question about the phase-in of the repack cycle.

If a reserve is already packed, and the new 180 day cycle goes into effect before it expires, does that already-packed reserve get the additional time under the new rule?

Or does it have to be repacked at the time interval that was in effect at the time it was packed?

[The_Don 0]

HMMM ..

Ask the USPA.?

Badger them & you may get an answer.

I've asked this for the last 6 months .

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[piisfish 140]

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Whatever happened to 180 day repacks??

they went to a "mostly 1year" policy.. at least in my country

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Squeak 17]

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And while we're at it, I have a question about the phase-in of the repack cycle.

If a reserve is already packed, and the new 180 day cycle goes into effect before it expires, does that already-packed reserve get the additional time under the new rule?

Or does it have to be repacked at the time interval that was in effect at the time it was packed?

That one, i know this and i'm not even a sepo

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[piisfish 140]

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If a reserve is already packed, and the new 180 day cycle goes into effect before it expires, does that already-packed reserve get the additional time under the new rule?

no, the repack goes stale the day after what is written on your repack card

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[howardwhite 6]

At the PIA meeting this past weekend, Allen Silver of Silver Parachute Service reported the 180 Day Repack cycle is now "on the 10th floor" of the FAA building -- meaning it's on the desk of the Administrator for a signature and is essentially a done deal.
After the signature, the change will appear one more time in the Federal Register giving the exact date it'll become law. This is normally 90 days from its appearance in the Federal Register, but hopefully it'll be less time. This all should occur by the 1st of November when the Federal Register will shut down for (he believes) the entire month of November for the elections.

As to when it affects your current repack, it doesn't. In other words, if your reserve hits 120 days the day after the new regulation takes effect, it's out of date -- it doesn't get an extra 60 days. In other words, the 180-day cycle applies only to pack jobs done after the new regulation takes effect.

Allen, who is chairman of PIA's Rigging Committee, is almost single-handedly responsible for getting this change process going, and is closely following its progress.

HW

[derrickiv 0]

Thanks for the info HW

[Slurp56 0]

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If a reserve is already packed, and the new 180 day cycle goes into effect before it expires, does that already-packed reserve get the additional time under the new rule?

no, the repack goes stale the day after what is written on your repack card

Man, you must pay a fortune in having your reserve repacked!

My repack goes stale 120 days after what is written on my repack card

________________________________________
I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw.

[rehmwa 2]

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As to when it affects your current repack, it doesn't. In other words, if your reserve hits 120 days the day after the new regulation takes effect, it's out of date -- it doesn't get an extra 60 days. In other words, the 180-day cycle applies only to pack jobs done after the new regulation takes effect.

I'd like to see the text that back this statement up.

Because the reserve card shows a pack date, not an expiration date.

thanks for the info

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[riggerpaul 1]

here is a link to a document on Allen Silver's website.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/files/180_day_press_release_2008-05-23_2_.pdf

The last time I checked his site, I believe it said that the rule would go into effect on 1 November 2008, but that has apparently been pushed back.

Either way, it confirms that repacks done prior to the effective date will retain their original 120 day limit.

(Edited to include the full URL to the document.)

[DJL 235]

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As to when it affects your current repack, it doesn't. In other words, if your reserve hits 120 days the day after the new regulation takes effect, it's out of date -- it doesn't get an extra 60 days. In other words, the 180-day cycle applies only to pack jobs done after the new regulation takes effect.

I'd like to see the text that back this statement up.

Because the reserve card shows a pack date, not an expiration date.

thanks for the info

I look forward to the idiotic debate this will evoke.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[likestojump 3]

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As to when it affects your current repack, it doesn't. In other words, if your reserve hits 120 days the day after the new regulation takes effect, it's out of date -- it doesn't get an extra 60 days. In other words, the 180-day cycle applies only to pack jobs done after the new regulation takes effect.

I'd like to see the text that back this statement up.

Because the reserve card shows a pack date, not an expiration date.

thanks for the info

I bet it's as simple as being grandfathered into a contract/law.

The rig is packed as per FAA regulations the date it was packed - thus it follows the 120 day reg. I honestly think it's a fairly black and white concept from the legal standpoint.

[bschuyler 0]

There should be no debate. The rigger that inspected and packed the rig only certified it for 120 days. If there were any chance of extending it by 60 more days, I would think that THAT rigger would be the one to have to do it.

[howardwhite 6]

Attached is Allen Silver's press release, from his web site, including the reference how the change comes into effect. Some of the info in the release is a bit out of date, but the newer stuff I posted earlier is current as of last Sunday.

HW

[Rover 11]

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And while we're at it, I have a question about the phase-in of the repack cycle.

If a reserve is already packed, and the new 180 day cycle goes into effect before it expires, does that already-packed reserve get the additional time under the new rule?

Or does it have to be repacked at the time interval that was in effect at the time it was packed?

That one, i know this and i'm not even a sepo

I know what sepo means but I bet most of the posters don't

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[jumper03 0]

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As to when it affects your current repack, it doesn't. In other words, if your reserve hits 120 days the day after the new regulation takes effect, it's out of date -- it doesn't get an extra 60 days. In other words, the 180-day cycle applies only to pack jobs done after the new regulation takes effect.

I'd like to see the text that back this statement up.

Because the reserve card shows a pack date, not an expiration date.

thanks for the info

If pack date is before date the new cycle goes into effect - pack job is 120 days.

if pack date is after date the new cycle goes into effect - pack job is 180 days.

If you are close to the date - wait for your repack until after the new cycle goes into effect.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[howardwhite 6]

From "Urban Dictionary":

1. Sepo
American. (Australian cockney rhyming slang.) From: Yank --> Tank --> Septic Tank.
Is he a Canadian? No, he's a Sepo.

2. Sepo
Americans
fucking sepos

3. sepo
A name given to Americans that talk a lot of shit, have monstrous horse teeth and complain about everything.

HW

[skymik 0]

hi,
in Italy in January we extended the rapack cycle to 180 days, and to work we are taking into consideration the autorization of compagnie…. for example, if a company does not authorize the 180 days repack cycle or the company is closed we keep 120 days repack cycle.
how it will be for you to use it?
If the reserve canopy owner’s manual says that the cycle of folding is 120 days and his company is closed ....... what is the repack cycle of this reserve canopy?

http://www.skymik.it

[DJL 235]

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There should be no debate. The rigger that inspected and packed the rig only certified it for 120 days. If there were any chance of extending it by 60 more days, I would think that THAT rigger would be the one to have to do it.

I see that you are new to this website. Pull up a seat and I'll pass you a cold one for the show.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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There should be no debate. The rigger that inspected and packed the rig only certified it for 120 days. If there were any chance of extending it by 60 more days, I would think that THAT rigger would be the one to have to do it.

I disagree completely. The rigger certifies that it is good to go the day he closes it. If the rule changes will the rigger's behavior change. Our experience in Canada has been that riggers behave exactly the same. If something needs to be mended or changed a conciencious rigger will do it at the time of repack.
The FAA rule currently talks about the time since the last repack. If the only change in the language is the number of days since it was packed then all currently packed rigs will follow the new rule. For any sort of phasing in, it will have to be specifically mentioned in the change.

[rehmwa 2]

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here is a link to a document on Allen Silver's website.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/files/180_day_press_release_2008-05-23_2_.pdf

thanks, but I was hoping to see the FAA official text on it, not one rigger's interpretation - since this aspect of phaseover would have to be very explicitly called out, not assumed or subject to interpretation. However, since it was Allen's release and Allen had high involvement in this effort I'm told, it's likely the next best thing.

I suspect it would really be up to the individual rigger's discretion in discussion with the owner of the rig rather than the FAA for this changeover - or should be. Does he trust his repack for the full 180, or does he do something different for 180 vs 120 and wants a restart after the change comes into effect. If he trusts his last work, the rigger should be allowed to just sign off the extra 60 days on his work.

although the hope is that some riggers won't assume the more explicit interpretation just to drum up more business

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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If pack date is before date the new cycle goes into effect - pack job is 120 days.

if pack date is after date the new cycle goes into effect - pack job is 180 days.

If you are close to the date - wait for your repack until after the new cycle goes into effect.

this, in essence, just puts off the true implementation of the change (from the rig 'user's' perspective) another 3 months

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[riggerpaul 1]

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here is a link to a document on Allen Silver's website.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/files/180_day_press_release_2008-05-23_2_.pdf

thanks, but I was hoping to see the FAA official text on it, not one rigger's interpretation - since this aspect of phaseover would have to be very explicitly called out, not assumed or subject to interpretation. However, since it was Allen's release and Allen had high involvement in this effort I'm told, it's likely the next best thing.

I suspect it would really be up to the individual rigger's discretion in discussion with the owner of the rig rather than the FAA for this changeover - or should be. Does he trust his repack for the full 180, or does he do something different for 180 vs 120 and wants a restart after the change comes into effect. If he trusts his last work, the rigger should be allowed to just sign off the extra 60 days on his work.

although the hope is that some riggers won't assume the more explicit interpretation just to drum up more business

Okay, I'll grant you that until we see the actual new document, we won't know for sure.

I went the the FAA website and found the following document that talks a lot about what the new regulations are expected to look like.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgNPRM.nsf/0/60157598B1431A7D862572E300657C3A?OpenDocument

I have got to admit that from what it says there I would have to assume that rigs will automatically be allowed to go to the 180 day cycle, even if they had already expired under the old rule. There doesn't seem to be any text that suggests a change on a particular date. All it seems to be saying is that the appropriate parachute must be packed "within the preceding 180 days..."

Go have a read and see if you get anything different from it.

[billvon 3,063]

>The rigger that inspected and packed the rig only certified it for 120 days.

Unfortunately, that 120 days is not recorded anywhere on the packing data card - and often the rigger who packed the rig is not available during an inspection of the rig.

One could argue a dozen different ways as to what's legal and what's not. In the end it will be whatever local drop zones do with it. I suspect most of them will go with whatever the local rigger says, and just assume the fuss will pass by in 60 days.