winsor 236 #101 December 5, 2004 QuoteQuote What FAR does it violate? Well, as long as the pilot didn't know about it and the jumper actually did have a parachute, then probably the only violation is FAR 91.13. If on the other hand if the pilot did know about it or the jumper did NOT have any sort of parachute, there would be a number of violations. Quote What BSR? At the very least -- 2-1 G. -- the one regarding minimum opening altitudes. The last time I checked, the verbiage of that particular BSR said you couldn't open below a particular altitude. If you don't open, you are in compliance. If they said you must open above a particular altitude, that would be a different story. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MWGemini 0 #102 December 5, 2004 In case you haven't seen it, here's the video of Luigi flying and landing the VX 39 http://www.cbpq.org.br/downloads.php Keep in mind the guy flying the black wingsuit right next to Luigi is Jeb. Also keep in mind that the Xaos 21-21 has been flown (although not landet...yet). These canopies are obviously very fast. If Luigi can land the 39 safely, with a little bit of planning and luck, a wingsuit can and WILL be landed safely in the near future. Before anyone flames me for being new to the sport or for bringing up an incident in which an extremely skilled jumper died (Chris Martin flying the Xaos 21-21. RIP Chris), think about it for a second. That press release states they are working on 4 technologies. Obviously all they need is a way to flare the wingsuit, devices to protect the body (similar to what a motorcycle rider would wear, perhaps), a device to interface with the ground, be it wheels, skis, or something else, and a way to slow down. I'm neither a wingsuit pilot nor an engineer, but I'm certain that it can and will be done. The only questions are: WHEN and WHO. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #103 December 6, 2004 Quote Keep in mind the guy flying the black wingsuit right next to Luigi is Jeb. Also keep in mind that the Xaos 21-21 has been flown (although not landet...yet). These canopies are obviously very fast. If Luigi can land the 39 safely, with a little bit of planning and luck, a wingsuit can and WILL be landed safely in the near future. What you fail to understand is that in order for the two to fly close to each other, the wingsuit flyer is flying as -slowly- as he can and the canopy pilot is flying about as -fast- as he can. They are both flying at the opposing limits of their gear. The parachute can fly slower in order to land. The wingsuit can not.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #104 December 6, 2004 That is a point well taken. I was not aware of that fact. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #105 December 6, 2004 Actually, the beauty of flying next to an object is you can see how well you can flare. The S3 has just about maxed out the size that arm wings can go, but the PF suit has a much larger leg that means even more lift and slower speeds are possible. With the PF suit just going on sale recently it is highly unlikly that enough experience is on those suits to know for sure... but the odds might be changed a little bit.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #106 December 6, 2004 QuoteHow about a $100 donation to the Christopher Reeve Paralysis Foundation? Just to formalize it . . . the person has to make a winguit jump and land without the use of a parachute, uninjured by April 20, 2008. QuoteWhat I'm starting to think is that there's going to be some "trick" involved that isn't in the spirit of the original question Ya, no tricks, he breaks an arm, it doesn't count. If he has a 'boo-boo' on his elbow, it counts. Landing a WS only to spend the next 6 months recovering doesn't meet my definition of landing a WS. Either way, the foundation wins, I like it. Deal Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #107 December 6, 2004 Jiminy H Christmas . . . it -only- took 2.5 years to get you to put up some cash. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #108 December 6, 2004 QuoteThe only questions are: WHEN and WHO. My educated guess is Mr Corliss, summer '05. Interesting topic/thread. I will say I'm rootin for him all the way. Looks like he's flyin the Vampire suit, and they're rackin up some killer numbers as far as vertical:horizontal speeds are concerned. If its to be done, Jeb is the man. Looks scary, sketchy, and nail biting, but I have a feeling he's confident in his skills and project team to pull this off incident free. He stresses that issue. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #109 December 6, 2004 QuoteQuote for quade to be sinking to this, says to me that he is starting to think it will be done. What I'm starting to think is that there's going to be some "trick" involved that isn't in the spirit of the original question -- like trying to land on a fresh powder slope covered with airbags. I still think there is a very good chance there will be a serious injury or death involved but somebody is going to eventually do it and somebody else is going to claim this is "landing" a wingsuit. In my mind that isn't landing -- it's simply surviving a crash. It has no practical application. i'm thinking a foamed runway.. ala the military towed jumper worst case scenerio... i'm not sure that counts as 'landing' either... but i'm impressed with the ballsack of anyone willing to try.. but i think that heavy clanking wieght has got to complicate matters... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joshjumps 0 #110 December 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote What FAR does it violate? Well, as long as the pilot didn't know about it and the jumper actually did have a parachute, then probably the only violation is FAR 91.13. If on the other hand if the pilot did know about it or the jumper did NOT have any sort of parachute, there would be a number of violations. Quote What BSR? At the very least -- 2-1 G. -- the one regarding minimum opening altitudes. The last time I checked, the verbiage of that particular BSR said you couldn't open below a particular altitude. If you don't open, you are in compliance. If they said you must open above a particular altitude, that would be a different story. Blue skies, Winsor When did BSR's become law I must have missed that memo. Josh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #111 December 6, 2004 Quote but i'm impressed with the ballsack of anyone willing to try.. but i think that heavy clanking wieght has got to complicate matters... Yea we'll be calling him "sparky" after he lands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #112 December 6, 2004 Quote Jiminy H Christmas . . . it -only- took 2.5 years to get you to put up some cash. Wink LOL! The problem is if no one goes after it, it won't happen. Now that someone is seriously pursuing it, I'm confident they'll pull it off. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #113 December 6, 2004 Quotei'm thinking a foamed runway.. ala the military towed jumper worst case scenerio... I am Thinking Ski Slope. A Nice Loosely packed but properly groomed slope that is close to the angle of decent. I dont know if landing a wingsuit can be done or not, But I would be willing to bet that it WILL be attempted with the next couple years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #114 December 6, 2004 BTW, Jeb isn't the only person working on this. He is now the most publicized, but I know of at least one other. He's working on landing on a snow slope, but I think he also has a poor chance of walking away from it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MWGemini 0 #115 December 6, 2004 QuoteWhat you fail to understand is that in order for the two to fly close to each other, the wingsuit flyer is flying as -slowly- as he can and the canopy pilot is flying about as -fast- as he can. They are both flying at the opposing limits of their gear. The parachute can fly slower in order to land. The wingsuit can not. I'll have to take your word for it, since I have very limited knowledge of wingsuits and high performance canopies. Certainly no first hand knowledge. While I do not doubt the validity of your words, I think it might be safer to say "CURRENT wingsuits can not fly slower to land". I'm confident that eventually somebody will come up with a design that can do it. Maybe it will be Jeb. Maybe he will die trying. But eventually, we will see wingsuits land and their pilots walk away. Of that, I have little doubt. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #116 December 6, 2004 QuoteBTW, Jeb isn't the only person working on this. He is now the most publicized, but I know of at least one other. He's working on landing on a snow slope, but I think he also has a poor chance of walking away from it. Ski jumpers routinely land under control on snow slopes without parachutes. I wouldn't consider anything except coming down under control on a horizontal surface as being a true "landing".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 4 #117 December 6, 2004 QuoteSki jumpers routinely land under control on snow slopes without parachutes. What is a ski jumper's descent speed (mph) when they land ? Don"When in doubt I whip it out, I got me a rock-and-roll band. It's a free-for-all." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #118 December 6, 2004 Doesn't really matter, they're on a ballistic trajectory from the design of the jump and hillslope. Basically if they rolled a bowling ball down the jump it would land at a certain point and intersect the slope at a rate of decent consistant with a "safe" landing. In order for a wingsuit jumper to do the same thing is going to be almost as difficult as landing on flat land -- it'll just give him a slightly wider margin of error.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #119 December 6, 2004 QuoteActually she rode a piece of the wreckage down , yea the tail section of the planeLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoostedXT 0 #120 December 6, 2004 I vote for rollerblades or a creeper. JoeFor long as you live and high you fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all that you touch and all that you see is all your life will ever be. Pedro Offers you his Protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #121 December 6, 2004 You guys are all aware that Denis Livchenskiy landed a wingsuit accidentally and lived (was in the hospital for about a week) a couple years ago in France, right?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #122 December 6, 2004 Yeah . . . And being in the hospital for a week pretty much counts as "not walking away".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #123 December 6, 2004 Oh, I wasn't saying it was the same thing. I was just pointing out that someone has gotten closer than most people are aware of.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #124 December 6, 2004 Ah . . . I wonder if any one has asked him if he'd intentionally repeat the experience. Actually, I'm guessing he get's asked the question all the time . . . I'm just unaware of what his answer is.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #125 December 6, 2004 Knowing Den, it's probably something drunken, unintelligible and Russian. But given how he jumps, it's entirely possible he'll repeat the experience.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
