kallend 2,026 #151 December 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteDepends on your definition of "without the aid of a parachute". Is he allowed to wear one as a back up, but not use it? If so he may leagaly jump from an A/C with a TSO'd 2 canopy system. There is no law that says you must open said parachute. FAR's get read as needing TWO devices, one you plan on landing and one for emergencies. However, I doubt you could get an FAA guy to think that a wingsuit alone is enough to qualify as a primary device. Call it an ultralight glider. They're quite legal.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 4 #152 December 6, 2004 QuoteSure it does...a wingsuit would be trying to match that trajectory.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not sure that's possible. Skier is doing 20-30 forward. Wingsuit would be 3-4 times that - Bad choice of wording on my part.....I should have used "angle of descent" instead of trajectory. Care to volunteer ? We could kill two birds with one stone.....advance our knowledge, and rid the gene pool of undesirables. Don"When in doubt I whip it out, I got me a rock-and-roll band. It's a free-for-all." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #153 December 6, 2004 >rid the gene pool of undesirables. Getting the entire Michigan school to try these out at the same time might not be the best of ideas. We do need someone to pummel every fall. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 4 #154 December 6, 2004 Another county heard from. Sigh. Don"When in doubt I whip it out, I got me a rock-and-roll band. It's a free-for-all." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #155 December 6, 2004 QuoteHH's latest poll shows a lot of folks believe this is possible, but even if you managed to plane out and drop the verticle speed down to zero, you'd still have a heck of a lot of forward speed and you'd be landing on your belly! Can somebody explain to me how they think this might be done? quade http://futurecam.com Lots of people have successfully landed wingsuits from the 30's onwards. It's the getting up and walking away afterwards that has proved problematical. Somebody's going to try it though. British jumper and trainee astronaut Tim Mace calculated exactly the speed, approach angle and flare necessary to do it, but purely as an academic exercise. You don't get to go to space camp if you haven't worked out when to say no. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #156 December 6, 2004 I went to Space Camp. Seriously. Of course, it was the tourist version back in the mid-80s . . . quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Courteney 0 #157 December 6, 2004 Ah, the first person in the whole thread to think of protection to ones neck. Even if some one could slow himself down vertical enough to land, with that great forward speed if a slight air pocket comes along you're liable to face plant and break your neck in trillions of pieces. And even if some one does land a wingsuit safely, I doubt there would be many followers....drags me down like some sweet gravity!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #158 December 6, 2004 Nothing but nasty carnage ahead of us,,not to mention the dozen or self appointed experts that will try after the first successful one,,sigh,,I don't get it,,,and I don't want to.Fun is Fun,,but geezz wallysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skykittykat 0 #159 December 6, 2004 QuoteWeren't some Kiwi nutters exploring this thing, planning on landing on a ski slope. Yup, they were talking about it a couple of years ago. I can't remember their names though. Liz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #160 December 6, 2004 QuoteYup, they were talking about it a couple of years ago. I can't remember their names though. I'll venture into guessing that one of them is nicknamed after a Rock & Roll legend... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #161 December 6, 2004 QuoteSki jumpers routinely land under control on snow slopes without parachutes I don't think I have ever seen a wingsuit jumper wear a pair of jumping skies?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #162 December 6, 2004 Quotewhy have the VX 39 fly along side it? The reason Luigi is involved is because if a wingsuit can stay relative to a canopy that HAS been landed then you SHOULD be able to land the wingsuit. I know this has been in the works for quite some time and I'm sure there are some things they still need to work out. This was originally planned for December and has now been delayed until spring. They are making progress but are still learning. Just like landing the vx39, they won't attempt this until they are clearly confident it will work. Good luck to all involved! I will definitely be there for this transformational accomplishment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #163 December 6, 2004 I didn't take the time to read all the posts here, but I think it can done. If the pilot can bring the wingsuit to close to 90 degrees it would slow his forward speed down and for a very short time it would also slow his vertical descent. It could be enough that if the pilot was equipped with a pair of special roller skates or in-line skates he cold just touch down. I would hate to see what happens if every thing is not done perfectly.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #164 December 6, 2004 Your need to refine your wager, specifically regarding "gear", and the definition of "wingsuit". I suspect any attempt to land a wingsuit on a horizontal plane must involve some sort of landing gear. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #165 December 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteSki jumpers routinely land under control on snow slopes without parachutes I don't think I have ever seen a wingsuit jumper wear a pair of jumping skies? But there aren't any footwear rules. Nothing to stop them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #166 December 6, 2004 I think Quade and I will agree what is landing a WS and what isn't for the purposes of our bet. No tricks, but nothing unreasonable either. As for injuries, scrapes, bruises, whatever, but nothing serious. If he hasinternal nbleeding, then it wasn't sucessful. If they have to use Kelvar in a WS to make it work, that's OK, it doesn't have to be a "stock" WS. Etc. I have a feeling Quade and I will agree on the results and not argue over who wins. I thin it will be obvious, one way or the other. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #167 December 7, 2004 QuoteThe reason Luigi is involved is because if a wingsuit can stay relative to a canopy that HAS been landed then you SHOULD be able to land the wingsuit. That logic doesn't work. THe canopy was flying near it's maximum speed in level flight, the wingsuit near it's slowest. The canopy is slowed down signifigantly more prior to touchdown.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #168 December 7, 2004 I'm sure that is exactly what they are working on. Luigi flaring the canopy as if landing and Jeb simulating a landing to see what is possible and what is needed to accomplish the same manuever with the wingsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #169 December 7, 2004 If Jeb kills himself trying, it will probably be eight years or more before anyone else attempts it. Hook, you may be putting your money on this one attempt - the eight years may be irrelevant. Hero - somebody that tries something incredibly stupid and succeeds. ------ fine line --------- Idiot - somebody that tries something incredibly stupid and fails. Personally, I think it's exciting that somebody's trying this. But I just can't see how the physics of it will allow for success (at least without a really good dose of luck). I vote for failure.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #170 December 7, 2004 does anyone know what the minimum speeds ever attained by a wingsuit are? both horizontal and vertical. I am sure the best birdmen in the world can get the vertical speed down into the 30's (just guessing). I cant imagine the horizontal speed getting much slower than the 70's or so (once again, just a guess)..doesnt seem possible looking at those numbers anyone have this info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #171 December 7, 2004 QuoteIt could be enough that if the pilot was equipped with a pair of special roller skates or in-line skates he cold just touch down. I would hate to see what happens if every thing is not done perfectly. Ever try to run in a wingsuit? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #172 December 7, 2004 ok, so alot of us are suggesting that he land with ski's, now if this was to happen i have a funny feeling that he might need to give up skydiving for a while and spend the next 5 years learning how to ski at whatever speed you go. This is a whole new sport that he will need to master before jumping out of a plane and landing on a pair of ski's without the aid of a parachute.....sounds ridiculous the idea, but maybe i will get to live long enough to see this happen. I sure am excited and will fly anywhere in the world to see it. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #173 December 7, 2004 >Ever try to run in a wingsuit? Yep, I can get to a pace that most women in long skirts with no slits cut would just be passing me at Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #174 December 7, 2004 QuoteThis is a whole new sport that he will need to master before jumping out of a plane and landing on a pair of ski's without the aid of a parachute Could he deploy a drouge once he's done his initial touch down? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #175 December 7, 2004 Quote>Ever try to run in a wingsuit? Yep, I can get to a pace that most women in long skirts with no slits cut would just be passing me at Kind of like an overgrown penguin, then...huh? And remember, he'd have to leave everything zipped up for landing. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
