PLFXpert 0 #51 July 29, 2005 Quotebetter for a family for one person to take care of the kids, rather than sending them off to daycare One thing I feel the need to add, having one of my degrees in sociology---that it is JUST as important for the MAN to be there as well. During the first 3 years of a child's life, it is very important for a parent to always be there, equally mother & father (not necessarily at the same time). After that, it's actually much better for the child to be dropped at a pre-school, playground or learning center for a few hours/day to spend time learning to socialize and get along with others. I also don't think a mom shoudl forget herself. So many mothers think it's wonderful and heroic to always put their child first. I think that's crap. If you never have time for yourself or do things for yourself, you are not giving your best self to your children, in my opinion.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #52 July 29, 2005 QuoteI agree -- I see nothing wrong with being married years before having kids (and I'm talking 5+). In the meantime you can make more concrete plans (such as buying a home and securing a joint savings) that may not have been possible without the 'permanence' of marriage. Jen I agree, with you and the post above mine (PLFXpert); I think people SHOULD wait to have kids until being married for a little bit, that's just my preferencea mother who takes time out for herself, I think will be better rested and able to give more of herself Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #53 July 29, 2005 Quoteequally mother & father i disagree only because not all children live with there makers...Its important for children to have a enriching relationship with there primary care takers , and better if there is a substantial male and female role model...Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #54 July 29, 2005 Alimony *seems* to be far less common these days anyway. But since you seemed so entirely against the whole concept, I thought I would point out that there are times when it is entirely justified. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #55 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI agree -- I see nothing wrong with being married years before having kids (and I'm talking 5+). In the meantime you can make more concrete plans (such as buying a home and securing a joint savings) that may not have been possible without the 'permanence' of marriage. Jen I agree, with you and the post above mine; I think people SHOULD wait to have kids until being married for a little bit, that's just my preferencea mother who takes time out for herself, I think will be better rested and able to give more of herself I also agree... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #56 July 29, 2005 QuoteThats an unfair assumption What is an Unfair assumption is that any person is going to support you for rest of your life. Regardless of what they promised. Always be prepared to take care of yourself without having to count on somone else providing for you. Quoteits opinions like this that take the good intentions of love and fuck it all up Love is an Illusion Created to perpetuate another Illusion Called marriage Which results in a reality called Divorce!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #57 July 29, 2005 QuoteI agree -- I see nothing wrong with being married years before having kids (and I'm talking 5+). In the meantime you can make more concrete plans (such as buying a home and securing a joint savings) that may not have been possible without the 'permanence' of marriage. I agree with your post, as well. I had interpreted Thanatos's original post to mean that there is no reason to rush into a marriage, just to be married by a certain age. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpchikk 0 #58 July 29, 2005 My mom and dad were married in the 1950's, my mom had her nursing degree, my dad was enlisted in the Air Force. My dad was stationed over in Okinawa, Japan one month after my parents were married. He was there for 19 months. My mom put herself through school to become a nurse anesthetist. When my dad came back to the States, my mom was making enough money, that she bought a house and put my dad through college. After my dad graduated college, my mom became pregnant with my oldest brother. She didn't quit work and she had the benefit of my grandfather taking care of my oldest brother. Two years later, she was pregnant again with my other brother. Again, she did not quit work. Both my parents worked, my dad travelled, my mom raised the boys. She worked up until she had me (which she was 40) and then she decided to take some time off to keep up with me. She stayed at home until I was put into kindergarten at 4 and then off to work she went again. She is now 69 years old and is STILL averaging 50 hours a week working. I honestly think it's what keeps her young and what keeps her going. My parents divorced after 31 years of marriage. She didn't ask for dime. She owns her own house now. She owns her car. She pays for everything in cash. She's not rich by any means, but she has earned everything she has on her own. Even if it's just a part time job when you have kids, do something that gets you out of the house and gets you involved in other things. It's so much better to be prepared than be sorry and not have anything to fall back on later on down the road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #59 July 29, 2005 I never said that a man should support a woman but it any body in a relationships sacrifices there future to help someone achieve their dreams it is a contract of sorts and the other person deserves to be ahhh ya know Im gonna just step away from the thread... I have my opinions and sometimes I dont express them right and get to attached so continue on ... I however think that anyone who lives in a black and white world is missing the pointSudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #60 July 29, 2005 QuoteInto threesomes, uh? No, I was just amused at the thought of having the two of you in a cage with frilly-necked collars on. I could shoot you both with paintballs and force you to listen to David Hasselhoff music. QuoteYou could have a frog in your throat and a... Never mind. That's a naughty little Frenchy! But to get back on topic (somewhat), I do prefer men to be financially stable before I put them in cages. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jeth 0 #61 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think its personal choice, I gave up 10 years completley to my family, did the stay at home wife / homeschooling mom thing but wanted more, now I will not stop until I have a degree and make something of myself... that's great you want more, but why is it a lot of women don't think they've "made something of themselves" unless they are MORE than a mother?? ( not trying to argue, just a question) Being a mother is not an accomplishment, thats just biology! If "being a mother" is enough for a woman, then "being a father" should be enough for a guy, too. I definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. And I don't agree with women who set that as their only goal."At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Buried 0 #62 July 29, 2005 QuoteI definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. nor do i. It's the raising the kids that could be classified as an accomplishment. In todays world, many mothers seem to fail at this Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites windcatcher 0 #63 July 29, 2005 QuoteBeing a mother is not an accomplishment, thats just biology! If "being a mother" is enough for a woman, then "being a father" should be enough for a guy, too. I definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. And I don't agree with women who set that as their only goal. sorry but I disagree with you; being a mother/father IS an accomplishment. Or I should say raising children is an accomplishment. Not just being a parent, but being a mom/dad. I know it's hard work; and what do you think is wrong with a woman wanting to be the best mother/wife? Why does she have to other goals? I'm not saying those are my only 2 goals, but they are some of my goals. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jeth 0 #64 July 29, 2005 Quotethat's not what i'm saying. are you capable of making money somehow some way? do you have a plan for the "what if"? like what if you have a bunch of babies and your husband dies? what if your husband is seriously injured and you become the "bread winner"? do you have a plan? i think it would be fairly irresponsbile to have children without a plan like this. plus, if you never get out and "do it on your own", then you are missing out on a huge chunk of life experience. even if you work at mcdonalds, you are still supporting yourself and therefore financially independent. i wouldn't marry someone because i thought they could take care of me. i would marry someone because i loved that person and wanted to grow old with them. plus, i make a good sugar mamma. Right on! I second all of this. I have one friend who married her HS sweetheart, had 3 babies, and was loving it. Then her husband got cancer. Now she is going to nursing school so that she can support her family when her husband gets too sick to. It would've been much better if she had gone to school first, before the kids. I have another friend that started college, but never finished. She has absolutely no skills, she has only worked in coffee bars her whole life. She has 2 kids. If something were to happen to her husband, she'd be totally screwed. That scares me. I worry for her."At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #65 July 29, 2005 QuoteIf my hubby kept me on the back burner for 5 years, or if I did that to HIM, we wouldn't have been together. When 'someday' never comes, it sometimes sours the relationship entirely. Not, necessarily. To each their own I always say. I met my hunny right after I graduated AFF at 20 years old and still in college. I'm 25 now and we're still together and have been living together 4 years. There is no doubt in either of our minds we will be together for life. There was a time, to your point, I was very upset (Skymama lectured me through this time. Ha!) that i had not been proposed to. I won't go into all the details, but.... Now, I'm VERY happy to NOT be married yet. I would stil like to be, and probably will be soon. But, there are MANY good reasons to wait, even if you wait togther. Not to mention, I learned the valuable lesson about society pressures. I've never considered myself pressured by anyone to do anything. But, I realized, after that 2nd year and especially the 3rd year togther when everyone, friends and family, kept asking "when the big day going to happen?" or joking calling me "the wife" that, that is exactly why I felt that you're "supposed" to get married after a certain amount of time together. I will NEVER ask that of anyone, b/c I think it's Ba-lonie. There is no wrong or right time as a general rule. It really depends on the two people. I realized with all these people bagering me and us and him, that I wasn't ready to be married and it was so silly for me to feel like something was wrong just b/c I wasn't yet. Some people get married, buy a house, have kids and do things the "perfect" society-approved way. I had just graduated college, the market was right, I was doing pretty well, and bought my house first. There would be no way I'd have a house at the beach that I'm so proud of, if I'd had to worry about and plan a wedding or was already married. Now, before ever entering into a marriage, we already have a good, solid, future planned for retirement, vacations, and have had plenty of time to talk about all sorts of things like children, finances, political views, passions, things we want to do, accomplish, etc. I'm very happy I wasn't married before b/c now, more than ever, I feel VERY confident that I can grow with this man, that we want the same things, and can weather through any storm (and believe me we had a couple tragic events happen where we were both very on edge). Had we been married before, I think it would have been more of a feeling of obligation to work out and agree with one another, rather than do the right thing and take the valuable time needed to get through the difficult times, really have the freedom to say the truth about what your'e feeling, and realize that I truly, truly don't want to go anywhere in my life without this person. Geez....there's a novel for you In other words, to each their own (edited to add: we're 10 years apart, and no-one likes being told "that will change when you're older", but I have to attest; even being very mature for my age and growing up quickly, I still did a lot of changing, questioning and wondering over the years of 20 to current-day 25. We have always been faithful, always had my best friend (my hunny) and we grew together, not apart, which I am very happy to know BEFORE walking down any isle).Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #66 July 29, 2005 QuoteIts important for children to have a enriching relationship with there primary care takers , and better if there is a substantial male and female role model... Well said. I agree and am happy you mentioned that.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites windcatcher 0 #67 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteIts important for children to have a enriching relationship with there primary care takers , and better if there is a substantial male and female role model... Well said. I agree and am happy you mentioned that. uh, I predict someone will now comment about how a homosexual couple is just as good Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jeth 0 #68 July 29, 2005 QuoteI agree -- I see nothing wrong with being married years before having kids (and I'm talking 5+). In the meantime you can make more concrete plans (such as buying a home and securing a joint savings) that may not have been possible without the 'permanence' of marriage. Jen I'll "third" this! I was very happy to get married in my early 20's, and we had no intention of having kids (still don't). Marriage is not just for having kids. Just like a "family" doesn't have to include kids. Me, my husband and our dogs are a family. "At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #69 July 29, 2005 Quoteuh, I predict someone will now comment about how a homosexual couple is just as good I'm never going to say that is right, however I'm not gonna sit here and protest such a thing either... Seriously, how does that really effect your life... I'm not just taking a stand on this issue, but I really believe that people should spend more time with their own lives rather than judging other peoples lives all the time... That's what God's supposed to do when you die. [/rant] FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites windcatcher 0 #70 July 29, 2005 see I told you All I know is, I have seen firsthand what it does to children, to grow up either without a father or without a mother. I would never wish that on someone Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mailin 0 #71 July 29, 2005 exactly! Besides, my husband would say I'm too hooked on my cats to allow another human being into the familiy (if ever, actually). JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vallerina 2 #72 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. nor do i. It's the raising the kids that could be classified as an accomplishment. In todays world, many mothers seem to fail at this Many fathers fail, too.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #73 July 29, 2005 Quoteuh, I predict someone will now comment about how a homosexual couple is just as good Ha!, Well, now that you mention it. I think a LOT of things are better than the kids who grow up in "the system". I interviewed and wrote articles about way too many kids in our DCF in Florida and the awful things they go through to not believe that. I would happily adopt a child to any loving, gay couple, who passed the very same background process that any other couple would.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #74 July 29, 2005 OK---my playfully dirty mind can't take any more serious discussion---take me back to the other threadPaint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thanatos340 1 #75 July 29, 2005 QuoteI agree, if you can afford to stay at home that is a great thing. However find the balance. And realize that you may need to fall back on skills , trades, etc when your american dream is squashed because your husband decides to screw around , leave you with 2.5 kids, burns down the house and steals the dog and cat. Right here. We are in 100% complete agreement. Although I think it is another bad assumption that the Female should automatically get the Kids. When My Brother went through his divorce, He told his Lawyer he wanted custody of his two daughters. The lawyer Laughed at him and informed him that in that small Georgia County, NEVER in history had a Male been awarded custody. He got a different lawyer and changed History! You are right, it is not a black and white world, But there are some things are better ideas than others. Not putting yourself in a situation like Tigras mom, is a Good Idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 3 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Jeth 0 #61 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think its personal choice, I gave up 10 years completley to my family, did the stay at home wife / homeschooling mom thing but wanted more, now I will not stop until I have a degree and make something of myself... that's great you want more, but why is it a lot of women don't think they've "made something of themselves" unless they are MORE than a mother?? ( not trying to argue, just a question) Being a mother is not an accomplishment, thats just biology! If "being a mother" is enough for a woman, then "being a father" should be enough for a guy, too. I definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. And I don't agree with women who set that as their only goal."At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #62 July 29, 2005 QuoteI definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. nor do i. It's the raising the kids that could be classified as an accomplishment. In todays world, many mothers seem to fail at this Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #63 July 29, 2005 QuoteBeing a mother is not an accomplishment, thats just biology! If "being a mother" is enough for a woman, then "being a father" should be enough for a guy, too. I definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. And I don't agree with women who set that as their only goal. sorry but I disagree with you; being a mother/father IS an accomplishment. Or I should say raising children is an accomplishment. Not just being a parent, but being a mom/dad. I know it's hard work; and what do you think is wrong with a woman wanting to be the best mother/wife? Why does she have to other goals? I'm not saying those are my only 2 goals, but they are some of my goals. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeth 0 #64 July 29, 2005 Quotethat's not what i'm saying. are you capable of making money somehow some way? do you have a plan for the "what if"? like what if you have a bunch of babies and your husband dies? what if your husband is seriously injured and you become the "bread winner"? do you have a plan? i think it would be fairly irresponsbile to have children without a plan like this. plus, if you never get out and "do it on your own", then you are missing out on a huge chunk of life experience. even if you work at mcdonalds, you are still supporting yourself and therefore financially independent. i wouldn't marry someone because i thought they could take care of me. i would marry someone because i loved that person and wanted to grow old with them. plus, i make a good sugar mamma. Right on! I second all of this. I have one friend who married her HS sweetheart, had 3 babies, and was loving it. Then her husband got cancer. Now she is going to nursing school so that she can support her family when her husband gets too sick to. It would've been much better if she had gone to school first, before the kids. I have another friend that started college, but never finished. She has absolutely no skills, she has only worked in coffee bars her whole life. She has 2 kids. If something were to happen to her husband, she'd be totally screwed. That scares me. I worry for her."At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #65 July 29, 2005 QuoteIf my hubby kept me on the back burner for 5 years, or if I did that to HIM, we wouldn't have been together. When 'someday' never comes, it sometimes sours the relationship entirely. Not, necessarily. To each their own I always say. I met my hunny right after I graduated AFF at 20 years old and still in college. I'm 25 now and we're still together and have been living together 4 years. There is no doubt in either of our minds we will be together for life. There was a time, to your point, I was very upset (Skymama lectured me through this time. Ha!) that i had not been proposed to. I won't go into all the details, but.... Now, I'm VERY happy to NOT be married yet. I would stil like to be, and probably will be soon. But, there are MANY good reasons to wait, even if you wait togther. Not to mention, I learned the valuable lesson about society pressures. I've never considered myself pressured by anyone to do anything. But, I realized, after that 2nd year and especially the 3rd year togther when everyone, friends and family, kept asking "when the big day going to happen?" or joking calling me "the wife" that, that is exactly why I felt that you're "supposed" to get married after a certain amount of time together. I will NEVER ask that of anyone, b/c I think it's Ba-lonie. There is no wrong or right time as a general rule. It really depends on the two people. I realized with all these people bagering me and us and him, that I wasn't ready to be married and it was so silly for me to feel like something was wrong just b/c I wasn't yet. Some people get married, buy a house, have kids and do things the "perfect" society-approved way. I had just graduated college, the market was right, I was doing pretty well, and bought my house first. There would be no way I'd have a house at the beach that I'm so proud of, if I'd had to worry about and plan a wedding or was already married. Now, before ever entering into a marriage, we already have a good, solid, future planned for retirement, vacations, and have had plenty of time to talk about all sorts of things like children, finances, political views, passions, things we want to do, accomplish, etc. I'm very happy I wasn't married before b/c now, more than ever, I feel VERY confident that I can grow with this man, that we want the same things, and can weather through any storm (and believe me we had a couple tragic events happen where we were both very on edge). Had we been married before, I think it would have been more of a feeling of obligation to work out and agree with one another, rather than do the right thing and take the valuable time needed to get through the difficult times, really have the freedom to say the truth about what your'e feeling, and realize that I truly, truly don't want to go anywhere in my life without this person. Geez....there's a novel for you In other words, to each their own (edited to add: we're 10 years apart, and no-one likes being told "that will change when you're older", but I have to attest; even being very mature for my age and growing up quickly, I still did a lot of changing, questioning and wondering over the years of 20 to current-day 25. We have always been faithful, always had my best friend (my hunny) and we grew together, not apart, which I am very happy to know BEFORE walking down any isle).Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #66 July 29, 2005 QuoteIts important for children to have a enriching relationship with there primary care takers , and better if there is a substantial male and female role model... Well said. I agree and am happy you mentioned that.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #67 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteIts important for children to have a enriching relationship with there primary care takers , and better if there is a substantial male and female role model... Well said. I agree and am happy you mentioned that. uh, I predict someone will now comment about how a homosexual couple is just as good Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeth 0 #68 July 29, 2005 QuoteI agree -- I see nothing wrong with being married years before having kids (and I'm talking 5+). In the meantime you can make more concrete plans (such as buying a home and securing a joint savings) that may not have been possible without the 'permanence' of marriage. Jen I'll "third" this! I was very happy to get married in my early 20's, and we had no intention of having kids (still don't). Marriage is not just for having kids. Just like a "family" doesn't have to include kids. Me, my husband and our dogs are a family. "At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #69 July 29, 2005 Quoteuh, I predict someone will now comment about how a homosexual couple is just as good I'm never going to say that is right, however I'm not gonna sit here and protest such a thing either... Seriously, how does that really effect your life... I'm not just taking a stand on this issue, but I really believe that people should spend more time with their own lives rather than judging other peoples lives all the time... That's what God's supposed to do when you die. [/rant] FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #70 July 29, 2005 see I told you All I know is, I have seen firsthand what it does to children, to grow up either without a father or without a mother. I would never wish that on someone Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #71 July 29, 2005 exactly! Besides, my husband would say I'm too hooked on my cats to allow another human being into the familiy (if ever, actually). JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #72 July 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI definitely don't see having kids as an accomplishment. nor do i. It's the raising the kids that could be classified as an accomplishment. In todays world, many mothers seem to fail at this Many fathers fail, too.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #73 July 29, 2005 Quoteuh, I predict someone will now comment about how a homosexual couple is just as good Ha!, Well, now that you mention it. I think a LOT of things are better than the kids who grow up in "the system". I interviewed and wrote articles about way too many kids in our DCF in Florida and the awful things they go through to not believe that. I would happily adopt a child to any loving, gay couple, who passed the very same background process that any other couple would.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #74 July 29, 2005 OK---my playfully dirty mind can't take any more serious discussion---take me back to the other threadPaint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #75 July 29, 2005 QuoteI agree, if you can afford to stay at home that is a great thing. However find the balance. And realize that you may need to fall back on skills , trades, etc when your american dream is squashed because your husband decides to screw around , leave you with 2.5 kids, burns down the house and steals the dog and cat. Right here. We are in 100% complete agreement. Although I think it is another bad assumption that the Female should automatically get the Kids. When My Brother went through his divorce, He told his Lawyer he wanted custody of his two daughters. The lawyer Laughed at him and informed him that in that small Georgia County, NEVER in history had a Male been awarded custody. He got a different lawyer and changed History! You are right, it is not a black and white world, But there are some things are better ideas than others. Not putting yourself in a situation like Tigras mom, is a Good Idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
