Couple of questions about brake lines

[Marc11 0]

So I finally got to jump my new used rig which is the first rig I've owned! The canopy is a Spectre 170 and it opens/flies great. One thing I did notice, however, was whenever I grabbed the front risers to practice front riser dives (with my break toggles in my hand, of course), my canopy starts freaking out and waving all over the place like it's under intense turbulance, even though the air was very still. I asked my rigger about it and he said that it is most likely the fact that my brake lines are a little too short, so when I pull my front riser handles down, I am also pulling my brake lines down, to which the canopy reacts unfavorably, to say the least. I was wondering if anyone has run into this same problem? Also, if this is indeed the problem, is there a relatively cheap way to extend brake lines without having to completely replace them? Or another way around this problem?

Thanks,

Marc

[Canadianfella 0]

Definitely sounds like the problem. If you take your main to the local rigger, he/she can extend the lower half of your brake lines for you... I think it cost me 10 or 20$ (if that) to get it done to both of my old canopies...

And I recommend getting it done ASAP. If you're not able to pull down on your front risers, you probably have no slack in your brake lines at all... which is shit, cause you could very well be flying in part brakes all the time.. which can (depending on how short those brake lines are) drastically reduce your ability to fly your canopy AND flare your canopy.

[billvon 3,075]

>is there a relatively cheap way to extend brake lines without having to
>completely replace them?

A Spectre with Spectra line should be fairly easy to extend. It will only involve the brake line below the stow, which is a few feet of line.

[Nutz 0]

I'm sorry, when I need to adjust my brake lines I untie the knot, undo the finger trap and redo it in a different place. Am I understanding the problem wrong?

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[councilman24 37]

Nope, the advice above applies if the there isn't enough line to tie the toggles lower/low enough.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

SOME people want the canopy set up this way.

When you open and release your brakes check your brake lines up to the canopy. Let go of your toggles. (YES you CAN let go of your toggles!) Is the tail pulled down at all? It shouldn't be. As you start to pull your toggles down how far do you have to pull before you move the tail? In one case you want this to be only an inch or two. This allows you to begin turns sooner/faster, pull your tail down farther, more completely stall your canopy. You need to be careful to check your stall point and not flare past the stall point. Think of this as 'old school' if you want but it applies to lower performance and bigger canopies.

This set up DOES NOT allow you to do front riser turns without releasing your toggles. Since I only do front riser turns high and don't do high performance landings this is how I want MY canopies set up. I let go of my toggles to do front riser spirals.

But, IF you want to do front riser turns for high performance landings or otherwise close to the ground you don't want to have to let go of your toggles to do front riser turns without pulling the tail down. In THIS case you want the solutions offered above. Toggles tied lower, meaning total brake lines longer. This means that when you pull your toggles to turn nothing will happen until you take up the slack. You may not be able to stall your canopy (meaning get full flare out of it.) For small high performance canopies they usually have such a small control range (full flight to stall) that you can put enough slack in them to pull your front riser downs without effecting the tail and still have arms long enough to get full flare out the canopy. With bigger slower canopies you may not be able to do this. This is the more common set up with experienced jumpers these days BUT NEITHER ONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG. It depends on the canopy, the intended flying style and use.

As I said, I want my canopies set up like yours. It's not WRONG. But it DOES NOT allow you to pull down your front risers without releasing your toggles, as you've found out. Longer brake lines allow you to pull down your front risers without releasing your toggles but on bigger canopies may not allow you to have full range on your canopy. This is less likely and less common in newer ZP designs because they tend to be smaller.

The whole point is there is not necessarily anything wrong with your canopy. But it may not be set up the way you want it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[davelepka 4]

Terry was right on with what he said, but I'll add this - if you release your toggles, and find that they ARE pulling down the tail, that is not OK.

In that configuration, when your canopy is in full flight, it's actually in something less than full flight. This translates into less speed, and when your coming in to land, thats bad. Your speed translates into lift when you flare, so more speed means more flare, which is good.

If you do find out that the tail is beign pulled down in full flight, this must be fixed. If you want to set your canopy up for shorter brake lines, and not use your front risers with toggles in hand, or set tham long and play with the risers is your choice.

If you go with the shorter lines, you need to find the stall point of your canopy (above 2k please) and be sure not to flare past that point close to the ground. Even in an emergency, or a 'panic' flare, you cannot go past that point.

If you set them up long, you generally set the length based on putting the stall point as far down as you can. while still being able to stall the canopy. You want to be able to pull the toggles all the way down, and hold them there for a few seconds before the canopy stalls.

If it stalls before this, the lones can be longer.

If it doesn't stall, you need to shorten them up. You need to be able to stall the canopy so you can get the full range of (slow) flight for landing. If you cannot stall the canopy, you cannot flare it all the way either.

The trick to the long lines is that you must pull the toggles down all the way, even in an emergency or panic flare. Even going down 3/4 of the way is giving up braking action that will help slow you down before impact. Remember to get the toggles down before you hit the ground.

One other thing, Spectra lines (the kind you have on your canopy) shrink after use. The length of your brakes lines today may be the result of the previous owner setting the canopy up that way, but it may also be due to shrinkage from regular use.

It's important for you to monitor the condition of your brake lines, and make adjustments as needed. Ask your rigger to replace your lower steering lines, and have him be sure to leave as much extra line as possible fingertrapped in the new line. This will give you the most raw material for letting the lines out in the future.

While you're at it, have your rigger show you how to let the lines out yourself. It's easy, and a good thing to know. Get some supervision the first time you actually do this, but you'll see how simple it is. Also, if you have any sort if velcro on your risers or toggles, get rid of it. It will grab and fray the lower steering lines, making adjustment tricky at best. If they get too fuzzy, they just need to be replaced again.