Sergey-san 0 #1 October 29, 2008 FireBird (formerely known as Performance Variable, manufacturers of Demon high-performance elliptical and Rush and Quick reserves) have introduced new canopy: http://www.flyfirebird.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/90_21/products_id/659 Description on their web-site is a little bit confusing: first they say that it's a bad-ass "high-performance canopy for experts", then however describe it as a good all-arounder... Among new features: -inflated stabilizers (idea taken from NEOS?) -new ZP material made exclusively for them, which is 35% lighter and thinner than regular ZP Has anyone got more details on this canopy and the material it's made out of? What kind of line-set do they put on it? Is it more high-performance than Demon or just more expensive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #2 October 29, 2008 Low pack volume main sounds like a great way to get people to downsize their reserves to fit in a smaller container. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danger 0 #3 October 29, 2008 I recall jumping a Perche 122 about a dozen years ago that had inflated stabilizers. Nothing new. Danger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #4 October 29, 2008 Kind of pricey, isn't it? A 120 goes for about $3600. Same size Katana is listed for $2285. Is the new material adding that expense? Also, they misspelled the name of their own canopy: QuoteWhile every landing the Clilli glides longer over the ground and lifts you up remarkably while the complete flaring. Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #5 October 29, 2008 Quote Kind of pricey, isn't it? A 120 goes for about $3600. Same size Katana is listed for $2285. Is the new material adding that expense? Have you skipped some class from math? 1,740.00 EUR = 2,237.77 USD But most likely you don't have to pay germain VAT.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #6 October 29, 2008 Yeah I saw the+30,00 thing under the pull down and figured that was some eurometric new way of listing stuff. May have missed math, but got the spelling right, didn't I? Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drudchen 0 #7 October 29, 2008 I really like the bottom skin logo/artwork. Looks cool! If only it flies as nicely as my Katana, I'm sold! edit: I guess it's still too early to ask about personal opinions and flight characteristics, and getting a demo here might be tricky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #8 October 30, 2008 Quote Quote Kind of pricey, isn't it? A 120 goes for about $3600. Same size Katana is listed for $2285. Is the new material adding that expense? Have you skipped some class from math? 1,740.00 EUR = 2,237.77 USD But most likely you don't have to pay germain VAT.... 129 sqft=1720€ without VAT = 1391€ (round about, sorry only mental arithmetic) today Interbank rate => 1,778.45 US Dollar I think this is a very good price for such a new innovative HP chute. The new low pack fabric is exclusively produced for Firebird! ....such things are very expensive for manufacturers. I don't know how much American Express do add. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre1Lucke 0 #9 October 30, 2008 This canopy, the chilli, should be the replacement of the demon. We have somebody at our dz who is flying a 120. It's for sure not a all-round canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sergey-san 0 #10 October 31, 2008 QuoteThis canopy, the chilli, should be the replacement of the demon. We have somebody at our dz who is flying a 120. It's for sure not a all-round canopy. Great! We found somebody, who has actually seen one in existance! Maybe you can find out, what kind of lineset they put on that canopy? Or any general feedback from the person, who jumps that canopy on your DZ: openings, recovery arc, soft front risers or not so soft? any details are welcome!!! Or maybe even photos in flight:) Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swish 0 #11 October 31, 2008 Don`t want to disappoint you guys, neither to spoil firebird business BUT... I have seen a lot of these cannopys cut away (about 10 of them). The problem is their brisk and unpredictable openings which result line twists, and cutaway. Of course - we can discuss packing technique or body position, but I don`t think that is the case, when we are talking about common cases, not occasionally ones.t This apply for both - demon and cayene. And that`s not only from my perspective (rented cayene for 8 jumps) but also from well-respected people (2000 and more jumps). Maybe its just bad luck, because we have a lot of them here, I don`t now. I hope, that this cannopy will be better then previous models. p.s. Sorry for English - not my native language Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre1Lucke 0 #12 October 31, 2008 I have about 400 jumps with a Demon. First 100 on a standard, next 200 on the competition and the last 100 on a Demon competition 90ft². No problems with openings, line-twist or what ever! I even have one of the landings of that Chilli on video. What I already heard about the openings, ..sensitive on bodyposition but soft. Dives a little bit more then the standard demon. For the rest, I will check what lineset is on it (I now they have the same colour as vectran) and maybe I will do a few jumps with it myself......that is,... if I can leave my Velocity behind ;o) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flip2 0 #13 October 31, 2008 Hi guys, i did a jump on the chili. The openings are very nice. Soft and On-Heading. The pressure on the front-riser is not hard. You can out the risers easily down even in full flight. The canopy has a little longer recovery then the normal demon. But when you use the fronts for landing you maybe have to put longer steeringlines on the canopy. Because i normaly land with double fronts and a 270 turn. For me the steeringlines was to short. The new zp is really good. No big packvolume and the canopy isn´t heavy. The lines are like HMA with an single attachment pionts for the lines. I normaly jump a demon competition 110 and tested the chili in the same size.http://www.klick-game.de/5640-Jahre.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #14 October 31, 2008 This belongs in gear and rigging, so I'm moving it there. Blues. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JanuszPS 0 #15 November 2, 2008 Initially I thought that it replaced Contrail, as this canopy disappeared from the catalog... regards JanuszBack to Poland... back home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asphaltpussy 0 #16 November 2, 2008 QuoteDon`t want to disappoint you guys, neither to spoil firebird business BUT... I have seen a lot of these cannopys cut away (about 10 of them). The problem is their brisk and unpredictable openings which result line twists, and cutaway. Of course - we can discuss packing technique or body position, but I don`t think that is the case, when we are talking about common cases, not occasionally ones.t This apply for both - demon and cayene. And that`s not only from my perspective (rented cayene for 8 jumps) but also from well-respected people (2000 and more jumps). Maybe its just bad luck, because we have a lot of them here, I don`t now. I hope, that this cannopy will be better then previous models. p.s. Sorry for English - not my native language Sorry to disappoint ya Swish, but since all demo canopies we're on a demo tour through Italy with Rob from 1Olav or in France with Alex Lemaire. (Except for the one from Luc) I wondered how you could have seen those 10 cutaways. The canopy is really sweet on the fronts. The openings are really soft and easy. But the openings have to be controlled on the rears if you wanna avoid a twist due to a bad body position. The canopy was mainly developed with Alex, a well known french swooper. It's rather replacing the demon and was made for frontpullers (us newskoolers). And the lighter and thinner ZP is really easy to pack. Try it.R&D Firebird USA Skyventure Arizona Instructor Eloy, AZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swish 0 #17 November 3, 2008 Not disappointed, just placed some thoughts what I have seen and heard. As I sad before - maybe just bad luck. Edited to add: asphaltpussy - I was talking about previous performance variable products - re-read my post Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asphaltpussy 0 #18 November 3, 2008 Thanks swish, it wasn't meant to offend ya and I'm sure you understood that. Yeah, bad luck or bad packing, bad position, bad pilot. That's most of the time the reason for a cutaway. It happened with Firebird products as it happens with all manufacturers. I saw dozens of Velocity cut away, but it's still a damn good canopy, if not one of the best cross-braced. People tend to blame the gear, not themselves. So, next time you're in Germany, come by and try the new products. You won't be disappointed. Blue onesR&D Firebird USA Skyventure Arizona Instructor Eloy, AZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JanuszPS 0 #19 November 3, 2008 I had a Cayenne 170 for nearly 100 jumps (my first canopy). I think it is very nice piece of equipment. I was little blaming the canopy till I moved to Sabre2 150 ... regards JanuszBack to Poland... back home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swish 0 #20 November 3, 2008 asphaltpussy - ok, I will keep that in mind JanuszPS - maybe that`s my problem also Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asphaltpussy 0 #21 November 3, 2008 All good man. Thanks to you guys we discovered the misspelling. Lines are 190kg kevlar lines from Edelrid. They're anti UV treated. Single attachment Wing is best when loaded minimum of 1,8 We're about to renew the website and the gear section. So stay tuned.R&D Firebird USA Skyventure Arizona Instructor Eloy, AZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
