Tonto 1 #1 June 20, 2005 So... after Michelin turned up with Tyres that don't work, and all the Michelin teams withdrew after the formation lap, the Brigestone teams went on to score points. A "hollow Victory." Tell me what you think.It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #2 June 20, 2005 I'll put the blame in this order: - Michelin - FAI - Ferrari Michelin SHOULD have come to the show with tires that worked. Period. They pushed the limit of performance for this race, but, having both sets of compounds not deamed safe by them is un-excusable. The FAI should have come up with a way to save the show. Ferrari should have agreed to the chicane option with no points for the Michelin teams. F1 is a show that lives off its fan, weather through TV coverage, ads, and attendence. The show should have gone on by reapect to the people there who paid huge money to be there.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 June 20, 2005 I hardly follow F1 but this story caught my attention. http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/thatsracin/sports/motorsports/nascar/11935468.htm Origianally reading the other articles I blamed Michelin. But the FAI could have allowed them to replace the unsafe tires with a different batch and things would have went on as normal. Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello could have also avoided this if they would have agreed to put a chicane in the course like every other team agreeded to. Big surprise they went on to get 2nd place.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #4 June 20, 2005 I don't agree with the addition of the chicane. The cars never qualified with the chicane. The cars were not set up for the chicane. The chicane offered no run off and faced the wall. If Ferrari had requested a chicane added in Barain, Rubens tyres may have lasted the race. Is it really up to the teams to deciede what they like and don't like about a track? If I'm at Nationals, and one manufacturer releases a service bulitin on their gear, should I not compete if my gear built by a rival manufacturer is airworthy? Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi did what they went there to do. They raced on a track which has been available for testing for a year. After Ralph hitting the wall on turn 13 at last years US F1 GP after a Michelin tyre failure, you'd have thought they'd have done their homework. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #5 June 20, 2005 QuoteIf Ferrari had requested a chicane added in Barain, Rubens tyres may have lasted the race. Is it really up to the teams to deciede what they like and don't like about a track? The proposal of the chicane was in association with none of the MIchelin teams making any points this race. It was to allow for the race to be a good show, but would have not dissadvantaged the bridgestones racers in the points.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twofast 0 #6 June 20, 2005 it's the michelin teams fault. all of those teams could have come it after the start of the race and got a new set of tires because of saftey concerns (just like getting a tire replaced because of a bad flat spot,ect.), and continued with the race. or maybe i'm wrong and they could only replace them with the same compound. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #7 June 20, 2005 Quoteand continued with the race. or maybe i'm wrong and they could only replace them with the same compound. The only tires they were allowed were the 2 compounds Michelin brough, which were both called unsafe by Michelin. Yes, they could have pitted every 10 laps (that was the estimate Michelin gave for how long would ech let last) and change them for safety reasons without penalty (no penalty beyond the 25 seconds it takes to pit), but there would have been no race really if that was the case. Again, its a show people pay good money to see.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shunkka 0 #8 June 20, 2005 as i said in a previous thread/post the only fault is on MICHELINE!! f1 is about drivers/cars/engines/and not at least TYRES the configuration of the track is well known from the start of the season so micheline is the big sucker in this game... how the hell this big company can`t offer a competitice tyre? how the hell can they want 2 modify the configuration of the track just for them what will happen if at the next race 8 teams will say: we cannot race because our aerodynamics cannot pass the safety issue.... micheline it`s the only one to blame what the bridgestone teams should do? to not start the race? why????? as i said... tyres are part of the game... sometime a tyre can make the difference and remster... u are right... f1 is a show... but AT FIRST IT`s A COMPETITION a competion between drivers, teams, engines, sponsors, engineers, etc etc and a competiton between TYRES companies at this time micheline lost it big time PS... sorry again for my silly english... but it`s not my mother language and of course i can bet i write better in english than other in romanian... as a conclusion... i`ll put the blame in this order: michelin - for what i said bernie - because he want a SHOW not a competition FAI - because they accept the new regulation (about tyres, engines... who knows about f1 sure knows what i`m talking about) a sport it`s a competition NOT A SHOW... ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #9 June 20, 2005 I stopped watching f1 ages ago as it is just so boring you could tell who was going to win. Very few off the drivers today have any balls, ever since sena died the only action is in the pit lane. I have better things to do. As for who is to blame, they all are drivers, organizers, governing body, if they would stop dicking about with the rules every bloody year it would probably get better Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icarusfx99 0 #10 June 20, 2005 Quote Ferrari should have agreed to the chicane option with no points for the Michelin teams. I don't see how Ferrari can be blamed for wanting to keep the race (and track) the way how they have practiced it the previous days. In the past there have been numerous complaints about changes due to Ferrari's dominance. If it would have been the Bridgestones that had the problems, surely no one would have wanted (or agreed to) a chicane, so why should they have agreed to one?! I agree that they should have found a solution that would have been more spectator friendly, but it all boils down to Michelin being totally unprepared and thus solely at fault. They (Michelin) should bear the financial burden (refunds of tickets, etc.) and I also think that they should try very hard to proove to the US (and worldwide) fans that they can compete at this track. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #11 June 20, 2005 Quotea sport it`s a competition NOT A SHOW... Yes, but not a pro sport. A pro sport becomes a show for the people paying for it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #12 June 20, 2005 The issue is that the track had been modified after the qualifyer. Well, no modified but Diamond Grinded. The crime is changing the tracks surface, and then not waiving the penalty for teams using different rubber. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 June 20, 2005 Accourding to more then one report Michelin had tires that would have worked but they announced the safety issue too late and the FIA said they were not allowed to replace the bad tires with good tires.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #14 June 20, 2005 QuoteAccourding to more then one report Michelin had tires that would have worked but they announced the safety issue too late and the FIA said they were not allowed to replace the bad tires with good tires. They discovered the issue during the evnt. They are only allowed 2 sets of tires at the event, so bringing a diff compound from ther plants would have been a infranction to the rule.. But, really, this should have been the best solution: break that rule; have all the Mchelin runners off points (but still have a race), but still have the track without the chicane...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_owen_uk 0 #15 June 20, 2005 No way should the chicane have been added, why should they make the circuit more suitable for the sake of a tire manufacturer? Michelin knew the circuit and they didn't bring a tire that was safe, they were right to pull them but that doesn't excuse them. Michelins fault completely.__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #16 June 20, 2005 How come nobody has addressed the fact that the track was diamond grinded after the qualifyer? It's not like these tires just all of the sudden weren't good enough as per Michelin... the track surface was changed for goodness sake. New surface = new rubber. They should have waived the penalties for changing tires as they had made it necessary to do so for the continued safety of the drivers. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #17 June 20, 2005 QuoteHow come nobody has addressed the fact that the track was diamond grinded after the qualifyer? It's not like these tires just all of the sudden weren't good enough as per Michelin... the track surface was changed for goodness sake. New surface = new rubber. They should have waived the penalties for changing tires as they had made it necessary to do so for the continued safety of the drivers. I don't know where you get this information about the surface being ground "after the qualifyer" (sic); the surface was ground in the spring, both IRL and NASCAR tested there after the grinding and the Indy 500 was run on the "new" surface. As I said in the other thread, Michelin failed to bring the proper equipment -- fault is Michelin's. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #18 June 20, 2005 Quotehave all the Mchelin runners off points (but still have a race)... So if I were in a team that could score no points - why would I want to trash the engine I need to use in France in 2 weeks time? And if a "racing incident" takes out a Bridgestone runner? C'mon. One side has nothing to lose in that kind of race, and nothing to gain except spoil someone elses race. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twofast 0 #19 June 20, 2005 QuoteHow come nobody has addressed the fact that the track was diamond grinded after the qualifyer? How come nobody has addressed the fact that you don't know what you're talking about? the track was ground months ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
comslayer 0 #20 June 20, 2005 Unfortunatley the Fans were the big loosers this weekend. The image of F1 in the USA was fragile anyway and then to have an incident like this one where no solution was reached might severly cripple F1 for the future in the USA. Many fans spent thousands of dollars to go and enjoy the show. Michelin is to blame for not having the correct tires. Adding a chicane would of been a breach of the rule book and a safety violation. The FIA followed the rules to ensure the safety of the competitors who had the correct equipment. Michelin made a good decision by not letting their drivers race but all of us fans missed a great show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #21 June 20, 2005 Personally, I think there's a whole lotta blame for everybody there. First, Michelin should have had proper tires for it. Of course, that's why they test the tires is to see whether they'll work on the track. When neither worked safely, Michelin sucked it up and said that the tires did not work. A blow out had already injured a Schumacher, right? Michelin flew in some spares to use, but I guess that wasn't allowed. Numerous suggestions were made with regards to this. Apparently, the only people not concerned with driver safety were the FIA. I understand that they demanded that the race go on and that the teams get drivers behind the wheel. In another post, I made mention about the weekend that Senna died. I applaud the teams and drivers for not going out to race on unsafe tires. Skydivers can learn a few lessons, eh? I also blame FIA for not having a backup plan. "Hmmm. we have all these teams racing on these tires. What if the tires are not safe? What do we do then?" They had no backup plan, and the race was a joke. I feel worst for the promoter and the fans. The promoter stands to lose a pretty penny for this. The race fans are now lookign for refunds. Crazy stuff... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #22 June 20, 2005 Latest from F1.com... FIA summons all Michelin teams.. http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3209/740.html Now that's telling em! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #23 June 20, 2005 The spectators and mainly the sponsors. If there was not so much money involved then they would have said " Who gives a shit? Let's just race " Money spoils the sport.... now where is my sponsor for the next swoop meet coming from ? Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #24 June 20, 2005 A couple of interesting things. first, I agree that the rules should not be changed. Second, I like the dig at the American court system! On the other hand, did anyone propose putting a governor on all Michelin-equipped vehicles to limit the speed? Would that have been within the rules? Sure would have been fun - telling drivers of F! race cars to drive slowly... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #25 June 20, 2005 QuoteMichelin SHOULD have come to the show with tires that worked. Period. They pushed the limit of performance for this race, but, having both sets of compounds not deamed safe by them is un-excusable. The FAI should have come up with a way to save the show. Ferrari should have agreed to the chicane option with no points for the Michelin teams. F1 is a show that lives off its fan, weather through TV coverage, ads, and attendence. The show should have gone on by reapect to the people there who paid huge money to be there. just like you... Michelin were dorks FAI should have authorised the change of tyres but with no points for Michelin users...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
