What to do in this situation??

[DON321 0]

Went to the DZ on Saturday and had one of the best days yet, 6 jumps back to back and made my 100th (friends and instructor made it verry memorable "thanks")
anyways on the last load of the day me and a buddy decided to do a 2 way it was a FULL load in one of our twin otters... me and my buddy were doing a little freefly sit coaching and were going to be last out since the majority of the load was all belly... we were all getting a little worried about being far out since all the others just took forever in the door (i dont yell and rush people out the door I hate when i get rushed) our turn came, we set up in the door and exited only to find our selves in a sit way passed the spot.. I pointed down and out at the dz to my buddy and signaled to pull he nodded "yes" and we broke off and tracked just enough to seperate and pulled around 5 grand (jumping from 13k) were i jump the dz is surrounded by wine vinyards and its not really an option to land out unless you have to. I knew I wasent going to make it back and wasent going to try and fly over the vinyards low to get closer and not walk so far back so i picked a huge field off to the north, turned and headed for it, 360 over the top to find wind direction and search for obsticals and power lines, turned final and landed perfectly, my buddy was right behind me on landing as well.... we walked about half way back before being picked up almost 1.2 miles out from the dz.
about 5 otheres landed out as well..

i probably shouldnt have jumped after seeing how far off the spot we were. but I was a bit angry the pilot wouldnt go around (they never go around) I could have pulled right out of the plane and just flew back the the dz but didnt want to switch up the jump plan last minute things could have been worse if we landed in the wine vinyards

so whats the correct way to address a situation like this? Dont jump if the pilot wont go around? or leave and pull higher?..... I wasent worried about landing out (done it a million times in my paraglider going cross country) just dont want to make the same mistake again.....
sorry for the novel any info would be great

[jclalor 12]

Vineyards? Hmmm, I wonder where this was at?

[danielcroft 2]

I'm a bit surprised that your pilots won't go around. Depending on the winds you could have pulled high seeing that you were last out. Don't know though, I think I would have gone out anyway & pulled high but I think it depends on the winds, what viable landing areas there are between you & the DZ, how comfortable you are with your canopy.

Hopefully some of the puppy chasers will be able to answer.

[Scrumpot 1]

If you're LAST out, and you looked first, and CALLED the spot by that point "BAD" - I'm surprised your pilot could not give you a quick go-around, and would not. Are you saying you actually called for one, and it was refused? Or, did you based on your prior experience and presumption - just ASSUME you would not get one? Also, being last out (if I understand your set-up to this correctly), and you did call for a "go around", you really would have no need for a "FULL" go-around either. A 180' to put you back over the DZ in/from any direction for you then, really would not matter. Nor I submit, be that big of a deal.

You should talk directly with your DZ / Pilot about this, and ask them what they think, and recommendation(s) should this same scenario happen again.

All the above said - I will also COMMEND you, for not allowing yourself to fall prey to the (all too often still) "Get-bak-itis"!! ...And picking an out that sounds like it was actually BEHIND you!! - CONGRATULATIONS!! Hopefully others will also read this portion if ever found themselves in similar decision-needing situation (regardless of how they got there), and take heed. - GOOD JOB!!
Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[billvon 3,070]

Are you saying you asked for a goaround and he refused? If so, your decision would be to exit anyway or land with the aircraft. Your call, but keep in mind that landing with the plane may be safer than landing in a vineyard.

If you didn't notice your spot until you were in freefall, then it was 100% your fault for not looking.

[NovaTTT 2]

Talk to the DZO about cross-wind jumpruns.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[airtwardo 7]

Hopefully some of the puppy chasers will be able to answer.

Now they're killin' kittens AND puppies?!



If the OP exited, pulled at 5 grand and still landed close to 3 miles out...what we have here is a failure to communicate!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[labrys 0]

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and you did call for a "go around", you really would have no need for a "FULL" go-around either. A 180' to put you back over the DZ in/from any direction for you then, really would not matter. Nor I submit, be that big of a deal.

Wouldn't a 180 instead of a "full" go around have put these guys out right over the top of the people who had just exited?

Owned by Remi #?

[Chubba 0]

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and you did call for a "go around", you really would have no need for a "FULL" go-around either. A 180' to put you back over the DZ in/from any direction for you then, really would not matter. Nor I submit, be that big of a deal.

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Wouldn't a 180 instead of a "full" go around have put these guys out right over the top of the people who had just exited?

I'm really interested in this too.

I guess it's all fine and dandy if people are deploying at the right height and flying as normal, by the time you exited they would be under canopy and decent vertical seperation.

If someone dumped high or has been sitting in brakes, that's very suss.

I guess it's different from a small 182 DZ and something like a packed Otter sky.

[AllisonH 0]

When they do a 180, they run the second jump run offset from the first to avoid dropping you on top of another group. So if the first was straight over the DZ, the second would be several tenths of a mile off to one side of the DZ.

[Chubba 0]

I'm going to enquire about this with the DZO.

He's often not happy when people do a full go around because people are slow at the door, never seen the 180 done.

[mr_music11 0]

What DZ is this at?

If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive.

[erdnarob 1]

It should be in California. But there is some vineyards in Illinois as well.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[JohnRich 4]

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If the OP exited, pulled at 5 grand and still landed close to 3 miles out...what we have here is a failure to communicate!

I didn't gather that the spot was all THAT bad. He could have flown to a point much closer to the airport, but he wasn't sure that he could make it all the way across the vineyards. So he deliberately chose to stay far away to land in a safe field. A long walk is better than a broken leg, so that was a wise, conservative decision.

[DON321 0]

we never asked for a go around because we knew we wouldnt get one from previouse experience (not me personally but fellow jumpers on same load)in 101 jumps ive never heard of or seen a go around where i jump at as well.....(not saying its never been done its just never been talked about in my 101 jumps)
i did talk to the pilot though after getting back to the dz and asked him if he would have went around and he said "no!! good thing you didnt ask"
i have been on jump runs were im last out and were getting far out and the pilot will start to make a slight 90 degree turn so were not so far out..

id rather not drop the dz name since its not completely there fault I could have stayed in the plane and rode back down but it didnt look like we were that far out when spotting...guess my personal spoting needs more work when were at the back end of the spot.....

i did get a call from my instructor the next day asking what happened and i explained but i never got to asking what i should have done differently I told him i made the choice to land behind in a for sure field and walk back instead of trying to make it over the vineyards and see what happens.....

[mrbiceps 0]

Let me get straight to the point. This DZ fucking sucks. All they care about is getting you out the door and dont give a crap about your safety. You should name this dz on this forum and they should be held accountable. Pack your bags and go elsewhere. In this case you should feel comfortable to ask for a go around seeing you were so far away and had no chance of getting back. You are a paying customer and i believe that that means you are paying for a plane ride and exit to a spot that u can get back to the safety of the dz. Lucky you are an experienced jumper. A novice like myself could have easily have gotten into big trouble in this same scenario. If not DEAD. That pilot and dz are a joke and i say they deserve a slap in the side of the head for not giving a stuff about your life and safety.

[speuci 0]

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he said "no!! good thing you didnt ask"

He said this in all seriousness? If so, you should name the DZ.

Also, I'm curious as to why a group of free-flyers would be last out as opposed to FIRST out... That load order sounds dangerous to me (but I'm a newb to though...)

[DSE 5]

If the OP's profile is any indication, this DZ is Lodi. I'd find this a little hard to believe that the pilot wouldn't do a 90 or 180, as I've jumped there a few times (granted, always as a WX) but had no problem with the pilot being willing to work with a longer or 90 on jump run.
Maybe take into account the very limited experience of a couple of the respondents to the OP as well.
If nothing else, do you think you might be overreacting to say the DZ doesn't care about safety? The OP has 101 jumps. That's hardly "experienced."
Since you're in Oz, I'll recount the experience of my first jump at Nagambie, Australia, where the pilot hit the green light a tad early. The locals knew he had a habit of doing so, but given that I was taking my newbie daughter out the door (she had around 100 jumps), and given that I could see the DZ when I opened the door, we ended up in a *very* bad spot. Nagambie is surrounded by water on three sides, powerlines all over the place. Yet I don't think they're a dangerous dropzone; quite the opposite. The pilot apologized, the DZO gave us two free jump tix, well and above "expected" response.
See this thread on spotting, GPS, and looking out the door before getting out of the A/C. IMO, one of the problems of GPS-based spotting is that skydivers either never learn to spot, or they get complacent. Until this year, our DZ never had a GPS, and in a backwards way, I'm glad for it.
Coincidentally, we had a new pilot flying relief the other day, he sorta knew the GPS (his first load with us) and put people out too far east, and too far south. Two folks landed off.
It happens

[airtwardo 7]

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Let me get straight to the point. This DZ fucking sucks. All they care about is getting you out the door and dont give a crap about your safety. You should name this dz on this forum and they should be held accountable. Pack your bags and go elsewhere. In this case you should feel comfortable to ask for a go around seeing you were so far away and had no chance of getting back. You are a paying customer and i believe that that means you are paying for a plane ride and exit to a spot that u can get back to the safety of the dz. Lucky you are an experienced jumper. A novice like myself could have easily have gotten into big trouble in this same scenario. If not DEAD. That pilot and dz are a joke and i say they deserve a slap in the side of the head for not giving a stuff about your life and safety.

...could be worse, could be raining.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jurgencamps 0]

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Also, I'm curious as to why a group of free-flyers would be last out as opposed to FIRST out... That load order sounds dangerous to me (but I'm a newb to though...)

Do a search on this forum about exitseparation, winddrift, ... and you will find the answer.

[skybytch 273]

Ya gets what ya pay for.

And before anyone assumes that I'm dissing the dz in question, I'm not. Jump tickets are significantly cheaper there than they are at other dz's in the area. Go arounds use extra fuel. Fuel is expensive. Since the dz doesn't charge as much for jumps, it seems fairly logical that they wouldn't do go arounds.

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You are a paying customer and i believe that that means you are paying for a plane ride and exit to a spot that u can get back to the safety of the dz.

Long spots and landing out are a part of skydiving.

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A novice like myself could have easily have gotten into big trouble in this same scenario. If not DEAD.

Novice or experienced, if you can't safely land out you likely need some remedial training...

[tetra316 0]

Have you ever jumped at another dz?

If you have then you should know that Lodi has more of a watch out for yourself mentality, not a 'we'll watch out for you' mentality. You are responsible for your safety. If you don't like something, take your money elsewhere. That said I prefer places where you are not babysat every step of the way.

Just don't piss Bill off

[noname 0]

Hi Don,

You have a very component instructor who knows your home DZ. He can give you much better guidance then anyone on the internet. The argument over whether or not the pilot should do a go around at Lodi was going on long before you or I started jumping and will continue for as long as Lodi has a dropzone. Also, there are several staff members and up jumpers who can help you with this or any other questions. If you catch the CRW team during their hang out time they are a wealth of knowledge about canopy control and flight. They also know a little about landing out ;)

Good job on actually looking where you were before leaving the plane and pulling high and finding a safe place to land. I think you already did the right thing here.

See you at the DZ!

[2shay 0]

the pilot should go around, but if he dosen't it is up to you I would have prob just pulled a little high. I would definitely talk to them to get that changed though. Landing in vineyards does not sound fun, and it is your skydive and you paid for it soooo.... I would talk with them they should not have a problem with hooking the plane around.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[tetra316 0]

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the pilot should go around, but if he dosen't it is up to you I would have prob just pulled a little high. I would definitely talk to them to get that changed though. Landing in vineyards does not sound fun, and it is your skydive and you paid for it soooo.... I would talk with them they should not have a problem with hooking the plane around.

To quote someone wise(see above):

Jump tickets are significantly cheaper there than they are at other dz's in the area. Go arounds use extra fuel. Fuel is expensive. Since the dz doesn't charge as much for jumps, it seems fairly logical that they wouldn't do go arounds.