Do high glide ratio canopies exist, i.e. 6:1?

[jumpflorida 0]

I am thinking of trying some cross-country type flights in the future, but have not seen any skydiving canopies with high glide ratios (like those of paragliders); I have read about a 17 cell, elliptical canopy, made by Paraflite, that uses two different names: Hi-Glide, and Peris (parachute insertion system). It is advertised as having a 6:1 glide ratio. One person that I spoke with about this canopy stated that it has poor opening characteristics, but flies well. It sounds good, but I think we all know how difficult it can be getting military stuff.

Additionally, I found a manufacturer of paragliders by the name Aerodyne, and thought that it was affiliated with the skydiving company. I corresponded with a representative of Aerodyne (flyaerodyne.com -- skydiving company) who related that there is no connection between the two companies other than sharing the same name and both manufacturing canopies.

I thought of buying a paraglider and having relined, reenforced, and pilot chute attachment point added, but I recall someone discouraging that as well. Why are people so quick to shoot down ideas?

Any thoughts on the subject?

[Erroll 80]

Quote

I thought of buying a paraglider and having relined, reenforced, and pilot chute attachment point added, but I recall someone discouraging that as well. Why are people so quick to shoot down ideas?

Perhaps because they know something you don't?

[yoink 321]

Quote

Any thoughts on the subject?

Several.

I think you'll have difficulty packing a 28m2 paraglider into a container designed for a 200 sqft parachute, not to mention all the lines.

I think you need to have experience flying paragliders before jumping under one. They're loaded very lightly and have different flying and malfunctioning characteristics to parachutes.

Paragliders aren't designed to open after jumping from a plane. How do you know the stiching will take it? How do you know the material simply won't blow out? How are you going to design and manufacture a slider for it that won't cause a malfunction? Do you understand why you'd need a slider? What about risers? Are they dsigned for opening shock?

There are a lots and lots of reasons why it's shot down so quickly. Read through the Gear forum and really get to understand how parachuting gear works and you'll be able to come up with your own reasons.


Can it be done? Yes - there are a few videos around of people jumping paragliders from baloons and planes in special d-bags that open right away, similar to a static line opening.
Is it a bright idea to be a test jumper for a wing doing something that it wasn't designed for? Probably not so much...

Use the right tool for the job.

[shropshire 0]

Do a search for Jimmy Hall (RIP). There is a video of him jumping a paraglider... I was not taken terminal (heaven forbid). I believe that he added a slider and may have static lined it.

The sports are converging and we'll get there one day but as Will said, a paraglider is very bulky and wouldn't pack small!!


Bottom line - we (PGers) don't need no smelly old plane - use skills (or the force!!) to get high and fly cross country then (my longest is 7 hours!!!).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[piisfish 140]

Quote

Any thoughts on the subject?

I'd love one.. at a small Cesna DZ...
imagine that in a crouded multi multi-turbine plane DZ...
canopies EVERYWHERE, at any altitude...
CRICKY HERE

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[pchapman 279]

Actually from what I've read, Jimmy Hall was supposed to be the only person to have taken a paraglider to terminal, as opposed to all the slow speed direct bagging from helicopters, ultralights, etc that has been done. He did use a slider and wrote that he was blowing lines regularly, as the canopy hadn't been relined. Photos show him backflying with the huge canopy bagged in his lap before deployment.

The high glide canopy idea keeps on coming up but never seems to go anywhere. PD experimented with the idea a decade back, and there was that French Nervures canopy but one never heard more about it later.

As for shooting down cool ideas, well, people tend to do that when you have 48 jumps. An interesting project but a lot of issues to deal with too.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

I have read about a 17 cell, elliptical canopy, made by Paraflite, that uses two different names: Hi-Glide, and Peris (parachute insertion system). It is advertised as having a 6:1 glide ratio. One person that I spoke with about this canopy stated that it has poor opening characteristics, but flies well.

The Peris Hi-glide is an amazing canopy and has a no BS 6:1 GR. AFAIK, its the only canopy with a GR that high that can be deployed at terminal. I found the openings to be fine if you WL it enough, otherwise it will snivel a bit longer, it is 380 sq ft after all. Airborne systems/Paraflite doesn't sell to the general public so getting a hold of one may prove difficult.

Your best bet is to find a large skydiving canopy or an old MC-4 canopy IMO.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[pilotdave 0]

All you need is some wind. No, skydiving canopies can't get 6:1 actual glide ratios, but with a tailwind you can do 6:1 with respect to the ground. I've exited 12 nm from the DZ at 12,000 feet. That's almost exactly a 6:1 glide. Well... it would have been if I made it to the DZ.

Had about my scariest off landing ever that time in a back yard surrounded by tall trees on that very breezy day (it's too windy to jump so lets do a cross country!). Ok, maybe you're better off with a canopy that can actually do 6:1 so you don't have to jump when the winds are stupid.

Dave

[shropshire 0]

Then Jimmy is even more of a hero in my book (we need more people like him).

As for blowing lines - I'm not surprised (have you seen the lines that we have on PGs?

But actually, if you're going XC then long freefall isn't required (you want to keep your height!!) to you don't need your PG to survive a terminal opening.

Instead of my normal PG - maybe it would be better to use a smaller one - not a speed glider (because they glide like a freefall canopy) but a small mountain glider - but they are still going to pack larger than a student canopy.


Now, if someone would please strengthen me a Nova - Shockwave. and add a slider.. it'll glide 8:1
We are privileged to live in interesting times

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Danger 0]

I jumped a couple that were designed by PD about a dozen years ago. Experimental canopies to set a Canadian parachuting cross-country record.
One was refered to as "Black Death" and the other was "Pink Floyd".
The container had a seat built-in that made the 20-25 minutes flight easier on the blood flow to your legs.

[pchapman 279]

Correction to my post:

I rechecked my notes: Jimmy Hall is claimed to be the only person to freefall a production paraglider, not to freefall it terminal. In the little I've seen written by him, he claimed no more. He once wrote he had 13 jumps with no cutaways, before getting into other projects.

Still, photos of his jump show that he was taking a good solid freefall, NOT deploying on the hill out the door with the pilot flying extra slow. So they were still high speed deployments!

[shropshire 0]

Still very

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,991]

>I thought of buying a paraglider and having relined, reenforced, and pilot
>chute attachment point added, but I recall someone discouraging that as well.
>Why are people so quick to shoot down ideas?

Because they don't want to see you make the same mistakes others have made!

Paragliders open terribly. They are lined differently - not just different types of line, but different cascasde patterns, different riser configurations and different toggle setups. Changing to a more ideal line configuration for terminal openings will affect how it flies.

If you are really into aircraft exits with paragliders, I've seen helicopter/dbag exits work well. The low forward speed combined with almost zero downward speed allow a very funky but usually uneventful opening with a standard paraglider. If you are dead set on freefall, you could set up a three-canopy system with a round 28' canopy deployed first, a paraglider set up on a dbag attached to that, and a conventional reserve. That would give you a "helicopter exit" although you'd likely lose the first canopy.

Warning - the paraglider will pack up enormously. They're made either partly or completely out of a mylar/sailcloth material that does not like being folded.

Christian Wehrfritz designed a paraglider with regular ZP and had some success; he could even take it to terminal. He has not made any more as far as I know.

If you are considering doing this, I would strongly recommend taking a few paraglider lessons. Even doing a bunch of sled rides will teach you a lot about how higher aspect ratio wings fly.

[BIGUN 1,313]

Based on the wing-loading in your profile.. just go get ya a used Falcon 300... You'll be up there quite awhile with a good/great glide ratio.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[shaark 0]

Quote

Based on the wing-loading in your profile.. just go get ya a used Falcon 300... You'll be up there quite awhile with a good/great glide ratio.

My longest ride during a series of test jumps was 22 miles.
Modified 300sq.ft canopy, loading it at about 0.55, canopy set in 3/5 brakes; hop and pop @ 15,000'.
Medium wind day. The recording equipment showed an average 7'/second descent rate.
So --- about 116,000' distance, 15,000' descent, about 33 minutes under canopy, totally dead legs for landing, ----- gives about a 7.7 - 1 glide ratio @ average 40mph ground speed.

Not too shabby for a skydiving parachute.

(The real in air glide ratio was probably 3:1)

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

The Peris Hi-glide is an amazing canopy and has a no BS 6:1 GR.

Here is a spec. sheet on the Paris canopy.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[virgin-burner 1]

for the lack of better explanation, maybe the german words for gleitschirme (glide-canopies, paragliders) and fallschirme (fall-canopies, parachutes) will clarify things a bit..

loosely translated of course!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[piisfish 140]

lousy translation...
parachute/fallschirm/parachute
is an object made to stop falling/protect you from falling
parapente/gleitschirm/paraglider
is not there to stop the glide or protect you from gliding. Simply a contraction of : parachute de pente, which is a "parachute for slopes"

a regenschirm doesn't help you fly when it rains, and is not a parachute made of waterproof fabric

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[virgin-burner 1]

as if you knew german, frenchy!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[BIGUN 1,313]

Quote

My longest ride during a series of test jumps was 22 miles.
Modified 300sq.ft canopy, loading it at about 0.55, canopy set in 3/5 brakes; hop and pop @ 15,000'.
Medium wind day. The recording equipment showed an average 7'/second descent rate.
So --- about 116,000' distance, 15,000' descent, about 33 minutes under canopy, totally dead legs for landing, ----- gives about a 7.7 - 1 glide ratio @ average 40mph ground speed.

SWEET!! I used a new Falcon 300 and while I didn't record the technical data as you did since it was a sunset recreational cross-country.

Wing/Loading was .75
Exit: 13,800 - North of downtown Tulsa.
~15 miles back to Skiatook Airport
Wind at my back and left the brakes stowed for about half the trip steering with my risers.
About a mile short of making the airport.

Man, we had fun.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jumpflorida 0]

Perhaps because they know something you don't?

[antonija 0]

Maybe if you'd make canopy open in several stages... so in first stage you'd get 100sqf above you head, then 200, then 300... kinda like accordion opening.. cell by cell. Maybe slider is not needed if you can manualy control when each pair of cells will start to inflate.

I'm pretty sure it can be done, but it'll take a lot of time and money to do it. I'd avoid cheaply bodged solutions.

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Not yet, but perhaps when at some point, especially if interest grows. As for jumping in crazy winds--no thanks.

The winds at altitude tend to be higher than at ground level and geography can make them _much_ higher. We'd get 60+ MPH winds at 17,000 feet MSL in Colorado and 10 MPH on the ground.

[darkwing 5]

What is the "Rapid Descent Device" mentioned in the PARIS ad? Probably not a hook knife, but something clever to make you go down fast without spinning. Handy if bad guys are around.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

What is the "Rapid Descent Device" mentioned in the PARIS ad?

I am not sure but I am checking with some contacts to see if I can find out.

Sparky

Edited to add.

This the best I can come with on how it works. See Attachment.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals