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lilchief 1
in case you should need to change your legstraps or MLW for some reason, the rings will make the job cheaper since they don't have to change the entire harness or larger parts of the harness. How likely that is to happen can be debated, but if it happens it MIGHT pay off.
I've had hip and chest rings in my Icon, and it's a better option since it will also fit better to the next owner since it more adaptable. It also felt somewhat more comfy then. If this is a rig you'll have for 2-300 jumps and then sell it, Id recommend you to get them since the resale value will be better IMO.
Now I've got a Vector3M with only hiprings and I don't feel the big difference for me. But I believe that has to do with the harness design on the vector.
I've had hip and chest rings in my Icon, and it's a better option since it will also fit better to the next owner since it more adaptable. It also felt somewhat more comfy then. If this is a rig you'll have for 2-300 jumps and then sell it, Id recommend you to get them since the resale value will be better IMO.
Now I've got a Vector3M with only hiprings and I don't feel the big difference for me. But I believe that has to do with the harness design on the vector.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no
www.lilchief.no
RMURRAY 1
QuoteIf you're worried about spending just $300, maybe you should re-evaluate the thousand extra you're spending to get a new container (or thousands on a completely new rig) versus used.
exactly, my container was 350 used. not new and shiny but works just fine. I always say spend the extra money on jumps and perhaps coaching/tunnel time...
Thank you all for the great advice and input. It really helps to be able to get straighforward expertise. In regards to buying a new container... I am in the military and mirage gives a pretty good discount for us so I think it makes sense for me personally
sagan 0
QuoteBill Booth said no,,or something similar, do a search...
If you look in the micron (bill's co) owner's guide it says his design of the yoke makes up for lack of chest rings.
Until I read that in the owner's manual that was the one thing from keeping me buying a micron because I wanted the chest rings.
Regardless of articulation a rig custom made for you will fit more comfortably than one that's not.
-Patrick
RMURRAY 1
QuoteI am a new jumper and buying my first rig. I was just wondering if the hip ring option is worth the extra 300 dollars that mirage charges for it?
There have been a couple of cases where a fully articulated harness may contribute to a bad situation. I will bet this is why some manufacturers do not offer full articulation and why some do not offer soft reserve handles. Here is an excellent post from a very experience jumper from several years ago...
From RICK HORN:
"I got saved by a backup device (RSL) on Thursday, August 28th. I
thought I'd relay the information.
My background:
5000+ jumps
107 cutaways (No, i don't need to learn how to pack, a lot of test
jumps and films.)
About 20 unplanned cutaways.
21 years jumping, AFF I/E, Static Line I/E, Full time instructor at Perris, AFF Course Director for USPA.
Equipment Background
Rig- Javelin, Articulated harness (Rings top and bottom), RSL and Cypres equipped.
Soft Reserve pillow
Main, Stiletto 135
Reserve- PD143R
I wear my leg straps and chest strap quite tight.
The jump:
A great AFF Level 4, the student did well, I watched deployment on the
student's canopy, and hung around to give a thumbs up for the camera. This put everything happening a little lower than usual, so I threw the main out at about 2100, as opposed to the usual 2500 since I've gotten older and hopefully wiser.
The main opened into a severe spin. There were no line twists, but I
don't know what caused the spin, as I could not see the left side of
the canopy. After the usual playing around with it, I decided to get
rid of it. My procedures are grab cutaway, grab reserve, pull cutaway,
pull reserve. I went for the cutaway handle, and to my surprise, it was
on the LEFT side of my chest.
I grabbed it, and reached for the reserve handle. It was somewhere under my left armpit. I could only touch it with my thumb, and not grab it. My theory is that a combination of the severe spin and the articulated harness allowed the handles to move so far. I had also practiced hooking my thumb between the reserve pillow and
the housing. I was unable to do it. I then pulled the cutaway handle, as I was not accomplishing anything in my attempt to find the reserve handle.
After pulling the cutaway, I continued to search for the reserve
pillow. I was unable to find it. I theorize that it tucked under the
main lift web as the harness slid back into position. That theory took
a couple of days to figure out. Being honest, I have my sincere doubts that I would have found the handle within the 6 seconds of working time that I had left. My RSL prevented me from knowing the answer.
I have since modified my rig to include a standard ripcord on the
reserve. This should also serve as a reminder that backup devices,
whether they be RSL or AAD can save your life, no matter what your
experience.
Please don't make this into a debate thread, there have been enough. I just wanted to share the experience, so people could make informed decisions.
Rick Horn
D-6277 AFFI/E
USPA AFF Course Director "
BIGUN 1,297
Thanks for the info, Rob.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.
actually, now i remember, i believe it was a Skydive Radio interview, i believe it was " hip rings can articulate you into a better position to fall out of your harness " or something similar, it makes sense to me, kinda like i dont need an IPOD phone to make a phone call,,,just $$$ decisions thats all...
smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083
FB # - 1083
pms07 3
Quoteactually, now i remember, i believe it was a Skydive Radio interview, i believe it was " hip rings can articulate you into a better position to fall out of your harness " or something similar, it makes sense to me, kinda like i dont need an IPOD phone to make a phone call,,,just $$$ decisions thats all...
Remind me how many experienced jumpers have fallen out of an articulated harness since it was designed many years ago? And how many of those are attributable to the harness design?
Comfort and performance, versus what people are willing to pay for, will always be debated. For my money an articulated harness, in particular the R.I. design on the VooDoo or Talon FS/FX, is much more comfortable than a "standard" harness. Your experience may differ of course but I am happy to pay for the added performance. Designs differ by manufacturer as well and some, IMO, are no different than a "standard" harness. And in some cases less comfortable. Try before you buy.
And how does the articulated harness get attribution for the Rick Horne incident? Just curious and I know it was a few years back. But I worked AFF courses with RicK and don't remember it being a "articulated harnesses are death" story. I could be wrong however and maybe Rick is around to answer to answer...
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with IPOD phones but it might just be me...
pms
Look up the interview and listen for yourself,,,don't pound me for it. He never said it contributed to an accident,,,just puts your legs in a better position to allow for one. I don't design or test rigs, he does. I've listened to alot of jumpers with more jumps than i argue around the bon fire soi jumped both types of rigs and in the end there was not a big enough difference for me to shit myself with excitement. Thus my opinion. Sorry
IPOD phone thing is like leather seats in a car. Some people think that its only awesome if it has leather,,,,at the next bonfire just smile and listen
smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083
FB # - 1083
gjhdiver 0
Quote
Personally, if going with articulation, the hip/chest ring configuration on a Mirage is a much better design than the hip rings only.
A common misconception. Unless you have a genetic abnormality that allows you to articulate about your upper chest, they don't actually do anything worthwhile except add bulk and decrease structural strength.
Round (not D-ring) hips rings, correctly located over the iliac crest of the pelvis, with snug cut-in laterals will anchor any container properly and articulate in exactly the same places you do.
(I see a lot of freeflyers with double sets of D-rings with their chest straps cranked down so tight that they've essentially locked a lot of movement out of the whole system.)
QuoteQuote
Personally, if going with articulation, the hip/chest ring configuration on a Mirage is a much better design than the hip rings only.
A common misconception. Unless you have a genetic abnormality that allows you to articulate about your upper chest, they don't actually do anything worthwhile except add bulk and decrease structural strength.
Round (not D-ring) hips rings, correctly located over the iliac crest of the pelvis, with snug cut-in laterals will anchor any container properly and articulate in exactly the same places you do.
(I see a lot of freeflyers with double sets of D-rings with their chest straps cranked down so tight that they've essentially locked a lot of movement out of the whole system.)
Gareth,
My comments, if you read in full, had to do with where the hip rings are located on the hips for the two different options from Mirage. I wasn't commenting on whether chest rings help or not.
But the Wings hip rings as you've described is in my preferred hip ring location as well (like in the chest/hip ring configuration on a Mirage).
I don't doubt/question you on strength. But I do like chest/hip ring rigs for ease of repairs or adjustments when it comes to chest straps, MLWs and leg straps.
Mike
ChutingStar.com
pms07 3
QuoteLook up the interview and listen for yourself,,,don't pound me for it. He never said it contributed to an accident,,,just puts your legs in a better position to allow for one. I don't design or test rigs, he does. I've listened to alot of jumpers with more jumps than i argue around the bon fire soi jumped both types of rigs and in the end there was not a big enough difference for me to shit myself with excitement. Thus my opinion. Sorry
IPOD phone thing is like leather seats in a car. Some people think that its only awesome if it has leather,,,,at the next bonfire just smile and listen
No need to be sorry man...your opinion is as good as mine or any other Like I said, get what you like, can afford or whatever. Still, if you are going to assert that an articulated harness is going to contribute to, or make it more likely, that you will fall out of your harness, you ought to be able to provide some explanation of how or why. I say bullshit...if fit and worn correctly. Lots of jumps on thousands of rigs in the past 15-17 years (not sure of the date of 1st articulated harness on the market but believe it was the Flexon by R.I.) would seem to indicate articulated harnesses aren't the cause of skydivers falling to their death. Just saying...
I know Rick and have heard his story. Not sure what looking up the interview would add.
I don't have an IPod phone so probably don't understand how it's like leather seats in car. You sit on your phone while driving your car in a bonfire? What?
FB # - 1083
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