Darius11 12 #26 May 12, 2005 Your right it is a very big deal in what type of bike he is looking at. An R6 will go up on one wheal before you can blink but a cruiser will not. Also most cruisers have a rpm much like a car. An R-6 will red line at 14000rpm and push 120 HP to the rear wheal. That’s a lot the bike is well under 400lbs dry. Yea we should wait to see what kind of bike he is interested in first.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #27 May 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteget a small bike you you don't mind dumping once or twice Like you buy a car you don't mind wrecking? How about learning not to dump it? Quoteyou're gonna dump a sports bike no matter what once or twice, especially if you're short QuoteCause I was an idiot and my first bike was a 700cc Nothing personal, I like you. But I think your judgement was more suspect than the 700. Quotere-read what I wrote "cause i was an IDIOT..." I'm taking full blame, not blaming the bike. I take full responsibility for my actions of getting into that wreck and am just trying to prevent him from doing it to. QuoteYou need prior experience, dirtbikes, something. Yep, an MSF course. Did you have one before wrecking the bikes you listed? QuoteNo, once again the reason behind my post. to INFORM him and advise him not to screw up like i did Quotewhat're you gonna do when you hit some sand or someone pulls out infront of you, or merges lanes and doesn't see you Exactly. What are you gonna do on a 250cc scooter? Evade? I think not. QuoteOnce again, why I said learn to ride around the block, dirt bike course, your backyard THEN upgrade Again, I am just trying to keep him safe and advise him of my mistakes. I was stupid and frankly, listened to everyone else tell me I would be ok on a crotchrocket as my first bike. No one told me different. That was now 5 years ago. I was 18, dumb, young and reckless. I've ridden twice since<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thanatos340 1 #28 May 12, 2005 I think it makes a HUGE difference on if we are talking a Sport Bike or a Cruiser. I don’t think Andy is looking for a Crotch Rocket. I just can’t picture him one. For you average Street Bike.. a 250 just will not cut it. Not for a Regular sized person and NOT EVER on the Highway. An old girlfriend of mine wanted a Bike so we got her a Rebel 250. She was 5'4" and right at 110 lbs. She had it 3 months before deciding to get something that could actually move when it needed to. Every time a car passed her (Which was almost every car) it would just about blow her off the road. Next we got her a Shadow vt500 but she felt much safe on that bike, especially on the highway because she was not getting blown around . The original Poster is a Full sized person. (Actually quite tall). It would be funny as hell to see him on a 250. Knees up around his chin.. Like I said before.. He needs a 500 to 750. Now if we were talking a Crotch Rocket.. That would be totally different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #29 May 12, 2005 QuoteLike you buy a car you don't mind wrecking? How about learning not to dump it? This saying: "There are the riders who have fallen and the riders who will" Holds true for a reason. Everyone drops their bike at some point or another. It's far different than buying a car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kansasskydiver 0 #30 May 12, 2005 Thank you<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #31 May 12, 2005 Yea man i miss having a bike. There is not a sunny day that goes by that I don't think about getting one. But right now I have to choose between skydiving and a bike. Skydiving wins I never hit over 190 on my bike but I hit that in skydiving when ever i wantI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marv0723 0 #32 May 12, 2005 I would check the licensing requirements for your state. Some states issue different licenses for different cc ratings. I would try to find that threshhold and get the bike sized right within a range that would get you licensed to rise almost anything. That way, when you learn and start to enjoy it, you won't be standing in line to take another test. Marvin Walden Move Shoot, Inc.-Tactical Training Consultants Visit http://www.moveshoot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LawnDart21 0 #33 May 12, 2005 Get the cheaper 250. Its your first bike, so you are destined to either drop it or it will just fall over on its own (kick stand on asphalt on a hot hot day). Its almost an absolute certainty to happen. Drop the cheap bike, then buy biggger and better down the road. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #34 May 12, 2005 Quoteor it will just fall over on its own That actually did happen to my 250 when I had it years ago. My neighbor knocked on my front door and told me my bike was on it's side on the ground. I went out and sure as shit, it was either knocked over or the wind pushed it. Cracked the front wheel fairing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #35 May 12, 2005 Yep, and I have put mine down. At 5 mph. That does not mean it should play into your buying decision there are MANY more important factors. That is like buying a canopy because of how it cuts away. Everyone will chop. But you fly much more often than you chop. And you ride much more often than you drop. To plan on a vehicle you don't mind dropping sounds counterintuitive to me. I have a $20K+ plus...it is a great incentive to keep it rubber side down.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #36 May 12, 2005 To plan on a vehicle you don't mind dropping sounds counterintuitive to me. A new rider has a much better possibility of laying it down or dropping it, therefore, to say it'd be smart to start on something that won't cost as much to fix when they do, I don't think is that counterintuitive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #37 May 12, 2005 Bet a heavier bike would have been blown over With or without you on it. In fact, thanks for proving my point. I have had this arguments at least half a dozen times in this forum alone. I would seriously be intersted in the people responding: Who has a cruiser? Who has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? How many miles a year do you ride? Have you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? IF you rule out the MSF my opinion would be different. But the MSF course is the most important part regarding safety. And once you finish that course you will anxious to get off that 250. I am average at 5'11" and 190lbs....and I felt cramped even shifting.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #38 May 12, 2005 How about his head? Or his back? or his body? We are anticipating him putting it down and we are worried about damage to the bike? If I had gone into riding planning on falling, I think I would have stayed out. That is the point of the MSF course is to teach you how to stay up. Regardless I know what you ride, again....sport vs. cruiser....apples to oranges.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,534 #39 May 12, 2005 QuoteWho has a cruiser? Who has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? How many miles a year do you ride? Have you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? I have a cruiser; I took the MSF course before actually riding. Bought a Sportster (883 cc) first, then upsized to a Low Rider (1340 cc). Why? Because at the time I was married to a diehard Harley guy, and nothing else would have done. I don't ride enough miles a year (probably about 1500). But I've been riding 12 years. I bought a smaller cruiser recently (750) to replace my Low Rider. It's plenty for me. I really like it. I can go as fast as I want to, accelerating faster than my car. I've never towed a trailer with my Low Rider, so I can't imagine that I'll feel the loss of being able to do so easily (although I did see someone towing a trailer behind a Helix!). If I were buying a bike to just tool around town, go to work, and not worry about just starting up and riding, I'd seriously consider one in the 350 range. It'll get you to the store, and let you commute without using a lot of gas. Would I take something like that on a road trip? Probably not. But my boyfriend has taken his 600 Shadow (his first bike) and enjoyed himself immensely. I would strongly encourage anyone starting up to get a bike that they feel thoroughly in control of. Because the smaller the number of things that you worry about, the less chance you have of focusing on them when you should really be focusing on situational awareness. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #40 May 12, 2005 Are you suggesting that after you take the MSF course, a rider is qualified and has the experience to go out an buy a GSX-R 1000? The MSF course is a learning tool for the basics of riding; it doesn't give you the experience needed to ride a bigger and faster bike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #41 May 12, 2005 QuoteBet a heavier bike would have been blown over With or without you on it. In fact, thanks for proving my point. I have had this arguments at least half a dozen times in this forum alone. I would seriously be intersted in the people responding: Who has a cruiser? Cruiser. Currently a 2002 Harley Fatboy. QuoteWho has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? I rode a Kawazaki 500 (3cylinder 2 stroke) back in 1980-82. I went down one time when I hit mud on the road at a sharp turn at night. When I bought my Fatboy 3 years ago, I took the MSF Course 2 months later. QuoteHow many miles a year do you ride? About 7000 per year. QuoteHave you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? Nope. Most people I know who invest that kind of money in a cruiser have the common sense to get instruction, stay on the back roads, read books, and take it slowly. QuoteIF you rule out the MSF my opinion would be different. But the MSF course is the most important part regarding safety. And once you finish that course you will anxious to get off that 250. I am average at 5'11" and 190lbs....and I felt cramped even shifting. My G.F. who is 5'4" 120lbs. just bought a 500 cc Vulcan and while I do think it's a little larger than I would have liked for her to start on, she has the common sense to have enrolled in the MSF Course. The course is a little over rated IMO because I felt like it took almost 3 days to learn what 4 or 5 hours with one on one instruction would have taught me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #42 May 12, 2005 QuoteAre you suggesting that after you take the MSF course, a rider is qualified and has the experience to go out an buy a GSX-R 1000? The MSF course is a learning tool for the basics of riding; it doesn't give you the experience needed to ride a bigger and faster bike. I agree. In fact it doesn't even give you the "experience" to even go out and ride on the highway IMO. The only way you get experience is to ride, ride, ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wartload 0 #43 May 12, 2005 You probably have a good idea what sort of riding you plan to do already. If so, and unless someone's gonna give you a "learner" bike nearly for free, get the bike that you will eventually end up wanting. Lots of people have wasted many $$ getting something too small/big/slow/heavy/ ... whatever ... to begin with, then having to trade it out later. The only argument for a "learner" bike is that you'll probably "drop" your first bike, or part it so that it falls over (beware of asphalt in the hot sun), during the first 6 months that you start to ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #44 May 12, 2005 Wendy, I respect as a rider, and you notice that she mentioned several bikes all bigger than 700. The 350, she described I am not aware of a 350, but that maybe me. Regardless you see her progression. Conundrum: How many times do I have to mention cruiser vs. sport bike. Can you quote a model other than a crotch rocket? I have said post after post that crotch rocket is a different story, and have said in a post that I woul recommend no more than 600, or better yet 500. Have you read those? Gravitymaster, I also respect as a rider. "Nope. Most people I know who invest that kind of money in a cruiser have the common sense to get instruction, stay on the back roads, read books, and take it slowly." is a very good point and half of the what I am trying to say. Your approach is more important than the bike, barring the obvious cruiser/sport choice. Additionally, I agree with you on the MSF course, but how much would a day of one on one instruction cost? For a true newbie rider...some people need that 3 days. They cannot assimilate all the information in one day. Imagine completing AFF in one day....possible, but not probably for many. In fact in general, that might be a good comparison. Does AFF or student progression clear you to buy a x braced canopy, no. But it is the first building block in learning and is the huge step percentage, maybe a bigger single leap than any other advancement. Would you advise a student to buy a Manta main? A lot of common thought advises a square zp canopy at a ratio of about 1:1 or less, coupled with careful progession and coaching. A bike is the same deal, but ever easier...you don't have a set minimum speed (rate of descent), you have near unlimited flare (braking ability), and no ground rushing at you (you can ride where you want to). So wouldn't you rather have a bike that you feel comfortable with after the first 100 miles? IF apporached carefully, there is no inherent danger. IF not approached carefully....well then any bike you own is a danger.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #45 May 12, 2005 QuoteConundrum: How many times do I have to mention cruiser vs. sport bike. Can you quote a model other than a crotch rocket? I have said post after post that crotch rocket is a different story, and have said in a post that I woul recommend no more than 600, or better yet 500. Have you read those? Then why would you even start arguing with me in the first place about it if you knew I was talking about sportbikes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BoostedXT 0 #46 May 12, 2005 I have been riding for 6 years and still ride a 600. Why? Because I can wheelie it at 100MPH, go faster through the canyon than 1000CC, and still go 160 if I want...Sportbike starter? SV650S, or Kawasaki Ninja 500. Cruise? How about something smaller still. To many place ALL the judgement on engine size...what about bike weight, Wheel base, and so on? Last I checked most drops, crashes happen because the bike starts to get off balance and the rider can control the leaning weight angle of the bike. Get something you can handle going slow....not when your cruising on the highway. You dont feel 600 pounds while riding a bike fast, but try turning in a tight place while 3 cars are looking at you to move....thats when you feel 600 pounds, pressure, and most likely do something stupid and crash, but what do I know....I only race dem-deer sporty rice rockets. \ JoeFor long as you live and high you fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all that you touch and all that you see is all your life will ever be. Pedro Offers you his Protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #47 May 12, 2005 Quote "There are the riders who have fallen and the riders who will" Holds true for a reason. Everyone drops their bike at some point or another. It's far different than buying a car. I'm passing 85,000 miles next week. I'll accept that statement only after something happens. Until then, I refuse to buy into the notion that I must crash my bike at some point. Seems fatalistic to me. New riders do well to avoid all body fairings, as even a parking lot drop can be very expensive. There are hosts of half naked bikes out there. It's clearly spring, as these threads pop up every week. Search, people! But for the record- No bike is the equilivent of a VX70. The life expectancy of a beginner on that canopy is one jump. The bike expectancy of a new rider on a CBR600 is at least 6 months. The rider usually comes out much better than the bike does. There are scarse few 250s worth buying, and virtually no 450s/500s in great working condition on the used market. Unless you're 100lbs, you're probably better off with something else. It's silly to work with cc's anyway. My former BMW (850R) was perfect for a new rider, if $9k and the current 1150 isn't any less manageable. Same would be true of the cruisers, save their weight problems and tendency to handle like shit even before the ape hangers are installed. Don't forget the riding gear. If you're new, you're not good enough for a beanie cap, no gloves, and bare assed chaps. Be stylish after the first year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #48 May 12, 2005 QuoteNo bike is the equilivent of a VX70. The life expectancy of a beginner on that canopy is one jump. *Ahem* Why don't you put a newbie on a drag bike and see what happens?Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #49 May 12, 2005 I didnt :-p I posted first, and not to argue, but offer advice. I even warned about the impending opinion storm. I responded to your post, which your credit you have edited to exclude cruisers. Even, before that edit I said: "This really only applies to sport bikes. And I would mostly agree with you," I am not trying argue...this just keeps coming up, and I have strong opinions about it. And usually the sport crowd disagrees.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #50 May 12, 2005 Well said....retail is location, location, location. Riding is caution, caution, caution, much more so than bike, bike, bike. Someone posted some rider's rules a week or so back. In summary, the minute you think you no longer have to be cautious, get off the bike. I have heard it many times before. Your mindset has more affect than any engine, frame, etc. Because with the right mindset, you can evaluate the rest of the factors. I will agree with BoostedXT on the weight aspect. But practically is an issue. 500lbs for a light cruiser does not feel like much less than 680 for my fat boy. That said, I would not want the extra 100lbs for the springer front end. You are right though, for any beginning rider, slow speed manuvuers will be the most cautious part.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Thanatos340 1 #28 May 12, 2005 I think it makes a HUGE difference on if we are talking a Sport Bike or a Cruiser. I don’t think Andy is looking for a Crotch Rocket. I just can’t picture him one. For you average Street Bike.. a 250 just will not cut it. Not for a Regular sized person and NOT EVER on the Highway. An old girlfriend of mine wanted a Bike so we got her a Rebel 250. She was 5'4" and right at 110 lbs. She had it 3 months before deciding to get something that could actually move when it needed to. Every time a car passed her (Which was almost every car) it would just about blow her off the road. Next we got her a Shadow vt500 but she felt much safe on that bike, especially on the highway because she was not getting blown around . The original Poster is a Full sized person. (Actually quite tall). It would be funny as hell to see him on a 250. Knees up around his chin.. Like I said before.. He needs a 500 to 750. Now if we were talking a Crotch Rocket.. That would be totally different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #29 May 12, 2005 QuoteLike you buy a car you don't mind wrecking? How about learning not to dump it? This saying: "There are the riders who have fallen and the riders who will" Holds true for a reason. Everyone drops their bike at some point or another. It's far different than buying a car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #30 May 12, 2005 Thank you<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #31 May 12, 2005 Yea man i miss having a bike. There is not a sunny day that goes by that I don't think about getting one. But right now I have to choose between skydiving and a bike. Skydiving wins I never hit over 190 on my bike but I hit that in skydiving when ever i wantI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marv0723 0 #32 May 12, 2005 I would check the licensing requirements for your state. Some states issue different licenses for different cc ratings. I would try to find that threshhold and get the bike sized right within a range that would get you licensed to rise almost anything. That way, when you learn and start to enjoy it, you won't be standing in line to take another test. Marvin Walden Move Shoot, Inc.-Tactical Training Consultants Visit http://www.moveshoot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #33 May 12, 2005 Get the cheaper 250. Its your first bike, so you are destined to either drop it or it will just fall over on its own (kick stand on asphalt on a hot hot day). Its almost an absolute certainty to happen. Drop the cheap bike, then buy biggger and better down the road. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #34 May 12, 2005 Quoteor it will just fall over on its own That actually did happen to my 250 when I had it years ago. My neighbor knocked on my front door and told me my bike was on it's side on the ground. I went out and sure as shit, it was either knocked over or the wind pushed it. Cracked the front wheel fairing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #35 May 12, 2005 Yep, and I have put mine down. At 5 mph. That does not mean it should play into your buying decision there are MANY more important factors. That is like buying a canopy because of how it cuts away. Everyone will chop. But you fly much more often than you chop. And you ride much more often than you drop. To plan on a vehicle you don't mind dropping sounds counterintuitive to me. I have a $20K+ plus...it is a great incentive to keep it rubber side down.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #36 May 12, 2005 To plan on a vehicle you don't mind dropping sounds counterintuitive to me. A new rider has a much better possibility of laying it down or dropping it, therefore, to say it'd be smart to start on something that won't cost as much to fix when they do, I don't think is that counterintuitive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #37 May 12, 2005 Bet a heavier bike would have been blown over With or without you on it. In fact, thanks for proving my point. I have had this arguments at least half a dozen times in this forum alone. I would seriously be intersted in the people responding: Who has a cruiser? Who has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? How many miles a year do you ride? Have you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? IF you rule out the MSF my opinion would be different. But the MSF course is the most important part regarding safety. And once you finish that course you will anxious to get off that 250. I am average at 5'11" and 190lbs....and I felt cramped even shifting.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #38 May 12, 2005 How about his head? Or his back? or his body? We are anticipating him putting it down and we are worried about damage to the bike? If I had gone into riding planning on falling, I think I would have stayed out. That is the point of the MSF course is to teach you how to stay up. Regardless I know what you ride, again....sport vs. cruiser....apples to oranges.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #39 May 12, 2005 QuoteWho has a cruiser? Who has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? How many miles a year do you ride? Have you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? I have a cruiser; I took the MSF course before actually riding. Bought a Sportster (883 cc) first, then upsized to a Low Rider (1340 cc). Why? Because at the time I was married to a diehard Harley guy, and nothing else would have done. I don't ride enough miles a year (probably about 1500). But I've been riding 12 years. I bought a smaller cruiser recently (750) to replace my Low Rider. It's plenty for me. I really like it. I can go as fast as I want to, accelerating faster than my car. I've never towed a trailer with my Low Rider, so I can't imagine that I'll feel the loss of being able to do so easily (although I did see someone towing a trailer behind a Helix!). If I were buying a bike to just tool around town, go to work, and not worry about just starting up and riding, I'd seriously consider one in the 350 range. It'll get you to the store, and let you commute without using a lot of gas. Would I take something like that on a road trip? Probably not. But my boyfriend has taken his 600 Shadow (his first bike) and enjoyed himself immensely. I would strongly encourage anyone starting up to get a bike that they feel thoroughly in control of. Because the smaller the number of things that you worry about, the less chance you have of focusing on them when you should really be focusing on situational awareness. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #40 May 12, 2005 Are you suggesting that after you take the MSF course, a rider is qualified and has the experience to go out an buy a GSX-R 1000? The MSF course is a learning tool for the basics of riding; it doesn't give you the experience needed to ride a bigger and faster bike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #41 May 12, 2005 QuoteBet a heavier bike would have been blown over With or without you on it. In fact, thanks for proving my point. I have had this arguments at least half a dozen times in this forum alone. I would seriously be intersted in the people responding: Who has a cruiser? Cruiser. Currently a 2002 Harley Fatboy. QuoteWho has taken an MSF course? Before or after a mishap? I rode a Kawazaki 500 (3cylinder 2 stroke) back in 1980-82. I went down one time when I hit mud on the road at a sharp turn at night. When I bought my Fatboy 3 years ago, I took the MSF Course 2 months later. QuoteHow many miles a year do you ride? About 7000 per year. QuoteHave you ever known people who own a cruiser who took it back because their first purchase decision was flawed? Too big or too small? Nope. Most people I know who invest that kind of money in a cruiser have the common sense to get instruction, stay on the back roads, read books, and take it slowly. QuoteIF you rule out the MSF my opinion would be different. But the MSF course is the most important part regarding safety. And once you finish that course you will anxious to get off that 250. I am average at 5'11" and 190lbs....and I felt cramped even shifting. My G.F. who is 5'4" 120lbs. just bought a 500 cc Vulcan and while I do think it's a little larger than I would have liked for her to start on, she has the common sense to have enrolled in the MSF Course. The course is a little over rated IMO because I felt like it took almost 3 days to learn what 4 or 5 hours with one on one instruction would have taught me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #42 May 12, 2005 QuoteAre you suggesting that after you take the MSF course, a rider is qualified and has the experience to go out an buy a GSX-R 1000? The MSF course is a learning tool for the basics of riding; it doesn't give you the experience needed to ride a bigger and faster bike. I agree. In fact it doesn't even give you the "experience" to even go out and ride on the highway IMO. The only way you get experience is to ride, ride, ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wartload 0 #43 May 12, 2005 You probably have a good idea what sort of riding you plan to do already. If so, and unless someone's gonna give you a "learner" bike nearly for free, get the bike that you will eventually end up wanting. Lots of people have wasted many $$ getting something too small/big/slow/heavy/ ... whatever ... to begin with, then having to trade it out later. The only argument for a "learner" bike is that you'll probably "drop" your first bike, or part it so that it falls over (beware of asphalt in the hot sun), during the first 6 months that you start to ride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #44 May 12, 2005 Wendy, I respect as a rider, and you notice that she mentioned several bikes all bigger than 700. The 350, she described I am not aware of a 350, but that maybe me. Regardless you see her progression. Conundrum: How many times do I have to mention cruiser vs. sport bike. Can you quote a model other than a crotch rocket? I have said post after post that crotch rocket is a different story, and have said in a post that I woul recommend no more than 600, or better yet 500. Have you read those? Gravitymaster, I also respect as a rider. "Nope. Most people I know who invest that kind of money in a cruiser have the common sense to get instruction, stay on the back roads, read books, and take it slowly." is a very good point and half of the what I am trying to say. Your approach is more important than the bike, barring the obvious cruiser/sport choice. Additionally, I agree with you on the MSF course, but how much would a day of one on one instruction cost? For a true newbie rider...some people need that 3 days. They cannot assimilate all the information in one day. Imagine completing AFF in one day....possible, but not probably for many. In fact in general, that might be a good comparison. Does AFF or student progression clear you to buy a x braced canopy, no. But it is the first building block in learning and is the huge step percentage, maybe a bigger single leap than any other advancement. Would you advise a student to buy a Manta main? A lot of common thought advises a square zp canopy at a ratio of about 1:1 or less, coupled with careful progession and coaching. A bike is the same deal, but ever easier...you don't have a set minimum speed (rate of descent), you have near unlimited flare (braking ability), and no ground rushing at you (you can ride where you want to). So wouldn't you rather have a bike that you feel comfortable with after the first 100 miles? IF apporached carefully, there is no inherent danger. IF not approached carefully....well then any bike you own is a danger.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #45 May 12, 2005 QuoteConundrum: How many times do I have to mention cruiser vs. sport bike. Can you quote a model other than a crotch rocket? I have said post after post that crotch rocket is a different story, and have said in a post that I woul recommend no more than 600, or better yet 500. Have you read those? Then why would you even start arguing with me in the first place about it if you knew I was talking about sportbikes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoostedXT 0 #46 May 12, 2005 I have been riding for 6 years and still ride a 600. Why? Because I can wheelie it at 100MPH, go faster through the canyon than 1000CC, and still go 160 if I want...Sportbike starter? SV650S, or Kawasaki Ninja 500. Cruise? How about something smaller still. To many place ALL the judgement on engine size...what about bike weight, Wheel base, and so on? Last I checked most drops, crashes happen because the bike starts to get off balance and the rider can control the leaning weight angle of the bike. Get something you can handle going slow....not when your cruising on the highway. You dont feel 600 pounds while riding a bike fast, but try turning in a tight place while 3 cars are looking at you to move....thats when you feel 600 pounds, pressure, and most likely do something stupid and crash, but what do I know....I only race dem-deer sporty rice rockets. \ JoeFor long as you live and high you fly and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry and all that you touch and all that you see is all your life will ever be. Pedro Offers you his Protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 May 12, 2005 Quote "There are the riders who have fallen and the riders who will" Holds true for a reason. Everyone drops their bike at some point or another. It's far different than buying a car. I'm passing 85,000 miles next week. I'll accept that statement only after something happens. Until then, I refuse to buy into the notion that I must crash my bike at some point. Seems fatalistic to me. New riders do well to avoid all body fairings, as even a parking lot drop can be very expensive. There are hosts of half naked bikes out there. It's clearly spring, as these threads pop up every week. Search, people! But for the record- No bike is the equilivent of a VX70. The life expectancy of a beginner on that canopy is one jump. The bike expectancy of a new rider on a CBR600 is at least 6 months. The rider usually comes out much better than the bike does. There are scarse few 250s worth buying, and virtually no 450s/500s in great working condition on the used market. Unless you're 100lbs, you're probably better off with something else. It's silly to work with cc's anyway. My former BMW (850R) was perfect for a new rider, if $9k and the current 1150 isn't any less manageable. Same would be true of the cruisers, save their weight problems and tendency to handle like shit even before the ape hangers are installed. Don't forget the riding gear. If you're new, you're not good enough for a beanie cap, no gloves, and bare assed chaps. Be stylish after the first year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #48 May 12, 2005 QuoteNo bike is the equilivent of a VX70. The life expectancy of a beginner on that canopy is one jump. *Ahem* Why don't you put a newbie on a drag bike and see what happens?Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #49 May 12, 2005 I didnt :-p I posted first, and not to argue, but offer advice. I even warned about the impending opinion storm. I responded to your post, which your credit you have edited to exclude cruisers. Even, before that edit I said: "This really only applies to sport bikes. And I would mostly agree with you," I am not trying argue...this just keeps coming up, and I have strong opinions about it. And usually the sport crowd disagrees.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #50 May 12, 2005 Well said....retail is location, location, location. Riding is caution, caution, caution, much more so than bike, bike, bike. Someone posted some rider's rules a week or so back. In summary, the minute you think you no longer have to be cautious, get off the bike. I have heard it many times before. Your mindset has more affect than any engine, frame, etc. Because with the right mindset, you can evaluate the rest of the factors. I will agree with BoostedXT on the weight aspect. But practically is an issue. 500lbs for a light cruiser does not feel like much less than 680 for my fat boy. That said, I would not want the extra 100lbs for the springer front end. You are right though, for any beginning rider, slow speed manuvuers will be the most cautious part.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
