buying used....money exchange??

[bostonredsky 0]

Sorry if this is not the place to post this, I have searched and looked only to find out this seams to be the appropriate place. Anyway, Can anyone recommend a safe way to exchange money for goods when buying used equipment from individuals on line. Looking to buy my first rig and have found a few. But each transaction goes south when it comes time to make it happen. I will not forward money before I see the product. I offer to pay shipping, have it checked by my rigger then send money or pay for shipping back if not satisfied. I offer my uspa license number as collateral or security measure, i've offered to submit a cc number as a hold, but everyone wants the money first, and I frankly do not trust that measure. Any ideas?? Thanks in advance.

[likestojump 3]

its a toughie and gets debated to death.

I suggest using paypal - that gives you an ability to dispute charges if funded by a credit card.

in the end, you will realize that just like you don't want to give up your money until you are sure, some sellers feel the same way, so it ends up an endless circle.

good luck

[2cmyzx 0]

Buy gear from likestojump, the one that answered your question, He deals gear and can probably get you what you want. Then you would have no problems and from what I have heard is excellent customer service. I would have no problem buying gear from him and sending the money Paypal if I was in need of a rig or canopy. I have also purchased gear from gravitygirl another reputable dealer on here. Or from Mike at chutingstar.com...oh I gotta stop somewhere!

[davelepka 4]

Try calling one of the well known gear dealers, or a loft at one of the bigger DZ. Tell them your situation, and that you want them to inspect a used rig for you. it will cost you a few bucks, but it will protect you during the purchase, and ensure you get airworthy stuff.

The seller ships the rig to the loft, if it passes the inspection, you send the money to the seller and upon reciept, the seller will have the loft ship the rig to you.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a seller who is unwilling to work with you in coming up with a plan that has a degree of protection for all involved may be hiding something, or just a pain in the ass. Either way, it's not the worst thing in the wolrd to pass on dealing with that sort of person.

Maybe talk to your local rigger or DZO and see if they have any input. They may know a rigger or DZO the seller knows, and everyone can vouch for everyone else through the grapevine, and make things a whole lot easier for all involved.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi boston,

IMO, there is no set answer. It does depend upon who you are dealing with.

Gravity Girl is one of the most ethical people I have ever dealt with ( and that's a lot of them ). I would send her money without question. I have also found her to be trustworthy when describing the condition of the used equipment.

Hope this helps,

JerryBaumchen

PS) If you go with someone else, say just some random jumper with an ad here, then try to find a 3rd party. Get the seller on-board with who the 3rd party will be, send your money to the 3rd party, have the 3rd party inform the seller that he/she has the money & ask the seller to send the goods to the 3rd party. I did this once selling some gear and it worked just fine.

There is no one size fits all, IMO.

[bostonredsky 0]

Thanks all. Didn't realize purchasing used gear was going to be such a taxing process. Appreciate the advice.

[shaark 0]

I've always found that networking helps. Having found gear that suits in most ways, and having talked to the seller, (by phone so you can feel the person out), try and get your DZO or rigger involved. With a bit of luck they probably know some people at the seller's DZ. This can help vet the seller.
If the DZO/rigger will act as a third party, that's good for you, and should reassure the seller.

I normally set it up so that if the gear is as represented, the buyer is purchasing same. Minor gigs should not be a reason to refuse the deal, although you maybe could tweak the price a little. Seller pays for shipping to the DZO/rigger, buyer covers return shipping if necessary. Buyer pays after inspection; test jump if agreed ahead of time. (Who pays for loss/damage/repack if shit happens?)
A reasonable seller should be ok with this. A reasonable buyer will not be frivolous.

Buy the DZO/rigger a case of beer.

If at all possible, try on a similar rig, similar sized rig at your DZ so that there will be no surprises.
Check the stolen gear lists.

Good luck.

Tanstaafl

[bostonredsky 0]

Thanks for the help, greatly appreciated.

[kmills0705 0]

I found both buying and selling used gear to be quite stressful. I found a rig here on dz.com that was exactly what I wanted - a J3 with under 100 jumps. I started e-mailing the seller about payment. He was a rigger in VT selling gear for a friend and wouldn't ship without payment. Didn't want to do the escrow thing with my rigger. So I contacted my rigger (Jay Stokes) gave him the specs/pictures and asked him if it were reasonable priced and if the rigger in question was reputable. He came back and said it was reasonably priced and had some contacts "check out" the seller.

In the meantime I listed my old Javelin from student days (a honking big Javelin J7) and immediately got interest from Mike Mullins wanting to buy it. Mike of course wanted it shipped to him for inspection before he paid.

So there I was in a situation where I needed to mail out $2500 to a guy I didn't know. At the same time I was sending off my complete rig without payment until it was inspected.

In the end it all worked out. I am sure both Mark from VT and Mullins thinks I am a bit neurotic as I e-mailed them on a daily basis. I actually went as far as "threatening" Mark. I sent him an e-mail stating "and by the way the guy I am dating is a special agent with the FBI. If this is not legit you will be tracked down". I can ONLY IMAGINE how much he laughed when he received that!!!! (I neglected that I used to date an FBI guy and no longer was dating him). What a nut I was!!!!

Since then I have bought and sold jumpsuits, altimeters and smaller things all without incident.

I recommend the following:
1) Get a reference for the seller (preferable a known rigger or DZO). If a DZO or Rigger is willing to vouch for the seller you are probably safe
2) Talk to the person so you know you have a legit phone number. Communicate with the person as much as you can. Someone who is trying to scam you isn't going to let out a lot of identifying information.
3) Get a valid address to send money to rather than a PO Box or something like that. Or better yet use Paypal (a lot of people don't like Paypal because of high fees. If the sale is high dollar the seller loses a lot off the top).
4) Know you are taking a chance. I have been lucky, but also trust your instincts.

I managed to get exactly what I wanted and am glad I didn't pass up the sale. I got my beautiful Javelin J3 (with a harness size that was a perfect fit C16 which is hard to find).

I hope this helps. Disclaimer: This was my personal experience. I am sure many others have different advice and opinions.

Kim

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[bwilling 0]

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IMO, there is no set answer. It does depend upon who you are dealing with.

I've found this to be infinitely true! I've bought and sold a number of items on dizzy.com, from nickel dime stuff to complete rigs worth thousands of dollars. I'll offer up this advice...

1) Communication is KEY. I just had a guy I've never met and don't know from Adam in real life send me a canopy worth $1200. I've also sent gear ahead of money directly to buyers before. If you do some due diligence before the sale or purchase, this won't seem like such a crazy idea! Communicate, communicate, communicate!!!

2) I think there's only two kinds of deals online, outright scams and legitimate deals. Not much in between. Use your head a little, and it's really easy to weed out the scams! If it sounds to good to be true, it IS! If the seller wants Western Union payments, or some goofy refund of over payment, run!

That doesn't imply that every deal has gone exactly as planned, but I can honestly say that I have NEVER had a deal that wasn't resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both parties involved. It just takes good communication!

That said, I'm all in favor of shipping more expensive items to a verifiable third party (DZO, staff rigger, etc...) to act as an escrow agent. It's the best way to protect both the buyer and the seller of said gear when they don't know each other.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[bigway 4]

Certain people you can trust when buying used. I would trust 'likestojump' if you are buying from him as his reputation is as sound as any distributors reputation.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[martlet 0]

Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe, but I still think the guy is a douche.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe, but I still think the guy is a douche.

Just because the deal went sour does not mean he would cheat you.

You've every right to be annoyed that the deal fell through, but to imply that you are worried he would take your money seems a bit overboard to me.

I've never heard anybody say he wasn't honest.

Deals sometimes fall through. That doesn't make the people dishonest.

[martlet 0]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe, but I still think the guy is a douche.

Just because the deal went sour does not mean he would cheat you.

You've every right to be annoyed that the deal fell through, but to imply that you are worried he would take your money seems a bit overboard to me.

I've never heard anybody say he wasn't honest.

Deals sometimes fall through. That doesn't make the people dishonest.

I wasn't implying that he'd cheat me. However, if someone lacks the integrity to follow through on a deal they made, that's been well discussed, and that the money has been sent on, then it brings their integrity into question across the board.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe, but I still think the guy is a douche.

Just because the deal went sour does not mean he would cheat you.

You've every right to be annoyed that the deal fell through, but to imply that you are worried he would take your money seems a bit overboard to me.

I've never heard anybody say he wasn't honest.

Deals sometimes fall through. That doesn't make the people dishonest.

I wasn't implying that he'd cheat me. However, if someone lacks the integrity to follow through on a deal they made, that's been well discussed, and that the money has been sent on, then it brings their integrity into question across the board.

When you say "I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe...", I cannot help but get the impression that you think your check in his hand might not be "safe".

I don't know why the deal fell through. Did he tell you?

Maybe he decided the gear was not in good enough condition.

Maybe he did you a favor.

[martlet 0]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe, but I still think the guy is a douche.

Just because the deal went sour does not mean he would cheat you.

You've every right to be annoyed that the deal fell through, but to imply that you are worried he would take your money seems a bit overboard to me.

I've never heard anybody say he wasn't honest.

Deals sometimes fall through. That doesn't make the people dishonest.

I wasn't implying that he'd cheat me. However, if someone lacks the integrity to follow through on a deal they made, that's been well discussed, and that the money has been sent on, then it brings their integrity into question across the board.

When you say "I'm glad the money was in the mail to a third party, so it's safe...", I cannot help but get the impression that you think your check in his hand might not be "safe".

I don't know why the deal fell through. Did he tell you?

Maybe he decided the gear was not in good enough condition.

Maybe he did you a favor.

Because after we made the deal, someone else came along and offered him more money.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Because after we made the deal, someone else came along and offered him more money.

He told you that?

If so, okay, that sounds like poor business practice.

I'm surprised. I wouldn't have expected that. And I am sure neither did you.

It sounds like you have justification to have a poor opinion of his business practices.

But still, you strongly implied that you would worry if he had your check.

The one does not necessarily imply the other.

You've every right to complain.

Complaining about what he did is one thing.

Complaining about what he might have done given the chance seems like something else to me.

If you truly didn't mean to question his honesty, I guess it was just a heat of the posting moment sort of thing.

Sorry to rag on you.

[davelepka 4]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

Just to be clear, was this deal with 'likestojump'? The post your replying to is about 'likestojump', but your reply is a little vauge as to if it's about 'likestojump' or just a guy from the classifieds.

If it is 'likestojump' in your story, provided that your account is accurate and complete, would be surprising given the multiple endorsements 'likestojump' has recieved in this thread.

If you're talking about some other guy from the classifieds, I'm not surprised at all. After all this whole thread is about the ups and downs of private party to private party transactions via the mail.

[martlet 0]

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Because after we made the deal, someone else came along and offered him more money.

He told you that?

If so, okay, that sounds like poor business practice.

I'm surprised. I wouldn't have expected that. And I am sure neither did you.

It sounds like you have justification to have a poor opinion of his business practices.

But still, you strongly implied that you would worry if he had your check.

The one does not necessarily imply the other.

You've every right to complain.

Complaining about what he did is one thing.

Complaining about what he might have done given the chance seems like something else to me.

If you truly didn't mean to question his honesty, I guess it was just a heat of the posting moment sort of thing.

Sorry to rag on you.

Let me try to explain myself further, then. No apology necessary. Nobody is forced to agree with me, nor am I required to change my opinion because someone disagrees. I just have my opinion on how a transaction should be conducted.

Regardless, you aren't getting the full picture since it would take forever to post. This deal was discussed in detail, and we reached an agreement. We each were also in contact with a third party, who verified the agreement with each of us, and it was verified again with each other. The understanding was pretty clear. I then sent my money as agreed upon. He then was made an offer larger than our agreement, and he accepted it then canned our deal.

I don't think he would have kept my money. Then again, I never thought he would have gone back on the deal after it was made. That causes me to question his integrity. It also makes me glad my money went to a third party so that I don't have to wonder whether or not it would have been a problem.

My point wasn't to whine about a deal gone bad, but to point out that a third party, even if not entirely neutral, can be a good idea. It's also an example of why many people don't WANT to be third parties, because now the third party feels bad. He shouldn't.

Either way, I'll continue to trade with other jumpers. My word is my bond, and with few exceptions everyone I've dealt with has acted the same way. I wouldn't sell my integrity for 50 bucks.

[martlet 0]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

Just to be clear, was this deal with 'likestojump'? The post your replying to is about 'likestojump', but your reply is a little vauge as to if it's about 'likestojump' or just a guy from the classifieds.

If it is 'likestojump' in your story, provided that your account is accurate and complete, would be surprising given the multiple endorsements 'likestojump' has recieved in this thread.

If you're talking about some other guy from the classifieds, I'm not surprised at all. After all this whole thread is about the ups and downs of private party to private party transactions via the mail.

This has absolutely nothing to do with 'likestojump'. I apologize if that was the impression.

[davelepka 4]

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This has absolutely nothing to do with 'likestojump'. I apologize if that was the impression.

In that case, I'd be willing to bet that anyone who expressed surprise about your story would be willing to retract their comments. I think they were all based on the idea you were dealing with 'likestojump'.

That said, your guy sounds like a dirtbag, and that does suck.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Funny you should say that. I worked out a deal this week from the classifieds, put a check in the mail, then learned he changed his mind.

Just to be clear, was this deal with 'likestojump'? The post your replying to is about 'likestojump', but your reply is a little vauge as to if it's about 'likestojump' or just a guy from the classifieds.

If it is 'likestojump' in your story, provided that your account is accurate and complete, would be surprising given the multiple endorsements 'likestojump' has recieved in this thread.

If you're talking about some other guy from the classifieds, I'm not surprised at all. After all this whole thread is about the ups and downs of private party to private party transactions via the mail.

This has absolutely nothing to do with 'likestojump'. I apologize if that was the impression.

Oops! I too got the impression that you were talking about likestojump.

Thanks davelepka for asking.

Thanks martlet for clarifying.

As I said, I never heard anything bad about likestojump, so I was surprised.

My ragging on you was based on the idea you were talking about likestojump.

Seems we were all miscommunicating.

So, I'll retract all I said.

Still, sorry you had an unpleasant experience. At least you didn't lose anything.

[nomal2day 0]

I recently bought gear from likestojump. We have never met, and only once spoke on the telephone; everything else was by e-mail.

We used a 3rd party rigger, who acted as escrow. The rigger found some minor discrepancies which may not have been obvious to likestojump when he was receiving and on-selling the gear, a small price adjustment was agreed to cater for these, and the deal was concluded. I wire transferred the money the same day.

Both parties were satisfied with the transaction. I can only endors the poster who said 'communicate, communicate, communicate'. That truly is the key; if both parties are on the same page at all times, misunderstandings just won't happen.

I will glady endorse likestojump for the representation of the gear he was selling, the way in which the sale was handled and the simplicity of the entire transaction. And, the next time I need gear, I will call him first. That is what it is all about. Thanks, Paul!

'To fly is heaven, to freefall is divine'

'You only need 2 tools. WD40 for when it doesn't move but should, and duct tape for when it moves but shouldn't'

[Chubba 0]

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We used a 3rd party rigger, who acted as escrow. The rigger found some minor discrepancies which may not have been obvious to likestojump when he was receiving and on-selling the gear, a small price adjustment was agreed to cater for these, and the deal was concluded. I wire transferred the money the same day.

Best reason hands to always use a rigger.

When I bought my complete rig via a DZ.com seller, the rigger discovered very minor damage (practically invisible) on one set of the 3-rings that was gradually cutting into the white loop. The seller was unaware of this, rigger called seller, new risers arrived that week for the same agreed price.

[bostonredsky 0]

Thanks all to whom have replied. i am still looking but have a good course of action. Much appreciated!