Ladies, I need to know...

[ham 0]

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I'm a nice guy. It doesn't mean that I'm spineless. Yeah, I'm nervous when I ask a woman out on a date. And yes, on that date, I'll open doors, buy dinner, and pay her compliments. Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

Thats the kind of man I want!

[gmittar 0]

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I think "nice guy" is the wrong description for the behaviour you're describing.

I've used spineless, but I don't think that's quite right either. Doormat, perchance?

Yup, nailed it.

|>.<|
Seriously, W.T.F. mate?

[unformed 0]

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Assholes get the girls, while the nice guys get to hang out with them.

Bullshit.

Just 'coz you're a nice guy doesn't mean you can't sweep a woman off her feet. If, by nice guy, you mean spineless, then yeah, fine. That's not usually an attractive character trait.

Most nice guys -are- spineless. props to you for not being of those.

I actually had a girl tell me she was glad I let her pay for herself on the first date, because most guys wouldn't. I'm not cheap, I don't mind paying, but I also don't want her expecting me to pay every time we go out. i have expensive hobbies, i don't want or need a high-maintenance woman.

Yeah, open doors to the restaurant; but you're both going in together. Don't walk around the car to open her passenger door unless you're going to throw her against the door and start making out with her. --Don't go out of your way to comfort her.-- Pay compliments, but don't bow down to her. (IE: don't say, oh, you're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my life) because now you've made yourself lesser than her.

(oh yeah, these "you"s aren't directed towards you, I'm just sayin stuff...)

i see too many guys that will do anything for the girl they like, and they get dragged on and on and on and on. i was like that too. be nice, but see her as your pweer, not someone you only wish you could have ....

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[gmittar 0]

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see her as your pweer

You're gonna need to teach me that one

|>.<|
Seriously, W.T.F. mate?

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

There are many reasons why people are not attracted to some of those so-called "nice guys"...they may be making themselves door mats for the vicious. They may be dull, uninteresting or maybe even have no personality. They may have no backbone, and they may be going after aggressive or rude women. It's not that they are "too nice" to find a "nice" girl. They are being lied to, if that is what they are told.

My boyfriend is really, really nice to me, but that has never been a problem for me. He also has passion, can be aggressive when needed and will stand up for what he believes in!

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And yes, on that date, I'll open doors, buy dinner, and pay her compliments. Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

I just reread this.

[unformed 0]

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I think "nice guy" is the wrong description for the behaviour you're describing.

I've used spineless, but I don't think that's quite right either. Doormat, perchance?


edit: gmittar, unformed: I think we're actually all saying pretty much the same stuff. It's just that the term "nice guy" is causing confusion.

yeah, we are. i should put nice guy in quotes, since that's what i really mean. i'm not saying to be an asshole, i was showing why, generally speaking, chicks dig assholes. .... there's a difference between nice guys and nice men.

nice guy = doormat

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[bob.dino 1]

He must be Welsh .

[Frenchy68 0]

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Yeah, open doors to the restaurant; but you're both going in together. Don't walk around the car to open her passenger door unless you're going to throw her against the door and start making out with her. --Don't go out of your way to comfort her.-- Pay compliments, but don't bow down to her. (IE: don't say, oh, you're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my life) because now you've made yourself lesser than her.

I'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[NWFlyer 2]

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I'm a nice guy. It doesn't mean that I'm spineless. Yeah, I'm nervous when I ask a woman out on a date. And yes, on that date, I'll open doors, buy dinner, and pay her compliments. Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

And that, people, is dead sexy. Why the hell do you live so far away, damnit!

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[gmittar 0]

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Yeah, open doors to the restaurant; but you're both going in together. Don't walk around the car to open her passenger door unless you're going to throw her against the door and start making out with her. --Don't go out of your way to comfort her.-- Pay compliments, but don't bow down to her. (IE: don't say, oh, you're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my life) because now you've made yourself lesser than her.

I'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

Pshhht, too touchy feely, but you do wear the goggles around here, so...

|>.<|
Seriously, W.T.F. mate?

[ham 0]

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I'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

right on!

[jumpchikk 0]

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Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

I have not processed anything else in this thread since this quote....

[NWFlyer 2]

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I'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

Damn, every so often I must acknowledge that the sexyfrenchbitch and I agree on something.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

Thank you for posting that, Nicky! That is so true.

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[bob.dino 1]

Thanks, ladies, for the compliments. It appears I give good text .

[ham 0]

You sure do!

[unformed 0]

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There are many reasons why people are not attracted to some of those so-called "nice guys"...they may be making themselves door mats for the vicious. They may be dull, uninteresting or maybe even have no personality. They may have no backbone, and they may be going after aggressive or rude women. It's not that they are "too nice" to find a "nice" girl. They are being lied to, if that is what they are told.

When I was much younger; I had a girl I liked come up to me, and give me her number. She had a crush on me as well. I can't mess this up, right? Or so I thought.

So I called her up, and said "Hey, what's up? blah blah blah, let's go out, what do you want to do?" I did what she wanted to do. We had a damn good time ...
I talked to her every day, for an hour or so every day, for a week. Then I got "Let's just be friends."

At the time, I had no idea why. I know now. I wasn't doing what I wanted, I was doing what she wanted and a girl simply can not be attracted to a guy she has power over.

About not being "nice":
Most "nice guys" (specifically in quotes) wouldn't even think about teasing a girl, or making fun of her, because they're too busy being nice. See, forget that; treat her the way you treat her friends. As men, we call each other pieces of shit, and dickheads, and make fun of each others hometowns constantly. Do that, and shes comfortable and having fun. It's not really being an asshole, but to "nice guys" (in quotes) that's what it seems like.

Actually, I'm using the term asshole very liberally; and i think only gmittar really understands what i'm saying .... i'm not talking about people who are actually mean, i'm talking about those who aren't overly politically correct.

This ad space for sale.

[unformed 0]

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Yeah, open doors to the restaurant; but you're both going in together. Don't walk around the car to open her passenger door unless you're going to throw her against the door and start making out with her. --Don't go out of your way to comfort her.-- Pay compliments, but don't bow down to her. (IE: don't say, oh, you're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my life) because now you've made yourself lesser than her.

I'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

for guys who don't know what the hell they're doing wrong, they need to know what not to do. some guys will do anything and everything for a girl, and they will be royally hurt by it.

since you and bob.dino know what you're doing, please stop reading this. we believe in the same things. i'm breaking this down for those who don't know what they're doing.

This ad space for sale.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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since you and bob.dino know what you're doing, please stop reading this. we believe in the same things. i'm breaking this down for those who don't know what they're doing.

Whose posts have received the most positive attention from the ladies thus far? Frenchy and Bob.dino, right? They obviously know what they are talking about, and I really appreciate having read their answers to the whole "nice guy" myth.

I think that Grue will do just fine if he takes either one of their advice and is himself, not trying to be something or someone that he is not. Grue doesn't need to change himself as a person. He may just have to actually look for a "nice girl" to take out, not a person who is into silly games. His only true problem lies within his choice of women. The right woman would be more than happy to be with a kind and good man. There is no harm in being nice or in treating a woman like gold, if she is truly worth it.

[JohnMitchell 16]

She's a drama queen, move on. There's a too many great women who don't play those kinds of games to waste any more time on that girl.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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You can't tell if a woman is really interested or not when you talk to her for a bit? I know that I feel like I give out a rather obvious "interested" vibe when I'm talking to guys that I'm interested in.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I find it hard to tell for sure, and even though I am confident about who I am, and that I am a good person (and would be a good boyfriend/have been in the past), I often lack the confidence that would enable me to feel, "Sure, she likes me!" There is a fine line between really knowing that you've gotten a signal from a girl, and just wishful thinking that a thing she said or did or gestured expressed "interest."

I tend to need to be beaten over the head with it. I have missed signals before.

The girl I dated this weekend, she gave me what I thought were signals. She works at a Nutrition World. I was there to pick up TVP for some vegetarian chili I was making, and she helped me find it. I offered to bring some in for her to try, once it was made that weekend, and she said sure, that'd be nice. So I did. And we stood at the cashier counter of the store, and chatted, and ate my chili, and laughed about a lot of stuff, and she shared her mangoes and honeydew with me. I told her I'd like to see her again, asked about seeing a movie or something, got an, "I'd like to do that."

So I came by again on Saturday, but instead of seeing a movie, we just hung out at a local restaurant and had a beer and dessert, and talked for a lonnnng time, enjoying learning about each other's backgrounds. Made plans to go visit the local zoo the next day. (It was too soon, I felt, to offer to take her flying or skydiving. Too much trust to ask right away. Am I right?)

So plans were made to go to the zoo, then for Thai food afterward. Sunday morning comes a phone call about being tired but about to get on the road to meet me at my house (which I'd cleaned a bit for her to feel comfortable). Asked to cancel the Thai food plan because of a recovered memory about meeting her friends for a concert downtown. So at this point I'm starting to get the sense that she is not into a date, and wants to downshift the nature of this day's plans.

Well, we went to the zoo, had a nice enough time, but she seemed a little distant.

Got back to my house, about a block away, and she lets me have it: "You're a really nice guy and I like you" ("There's a 'BUT' comin', right?!")

"BUT..."

"I'm going through a divorce right now..."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So anyway, after that, we sat by my landlady's pool, ordered pizza in, talked for a long while, still got along well, expressed feelings (yes, we like each other, yes that way, but things are, needless to say, a little complicated right now?)...

It went from 4 o'clock to 7 o'clock really quickly, and she mentioned that she was pretty tired and ought to head home. I realized that she hadn't said anything about going to meet her friends for the downtown concert, and she said, "Oh, that would have been at 3:30!" I apologized for keeping her from it, and she assured me that she had made her own decision to stay with me. Well, that was nice to hear, anyway.
So she called when she reached home, and we talked some more, pleasantly. I'm totally not sure where this is going to go, but we both have expressed that we want to keep seeing each other. I'm just afraid that if she keeps seeing me as "just a friend" because of all this husband-crap, eventually my window to become a romantic interest will close and I'll just be the "big brother" who listens well. But when I expressed that concern to her, she gave me an emphatic "No," that that wouldn't happen. (I guess that's her way of saying that there's an attraction strong enough to last beyond that?)

Think Good Thoughts... Think Good Thoughts... Think Good Thoughts...

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
Similarly, I feel that they're interested as well from their vibe. Of course, I can't tell at that moment for sure if the vibe is "want to take you home with me for crazy monkey sex" vibe or "want to marry you" vibe or somewhere in between.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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i see too many guys that will do anything for the girl they like, and they get dragged on and on and on and on. i was like that too. be nice, but see her as your peer, not someone you only wish you could have ....

This is good advice.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I'm the guy that's too nice to date

Here is your problem bud. I'm sorry, but guys that girls describe as NICE almost never get described by them as anything else. And their friends are nice. You can be nice, just don't make it your defining trait. Most nice guys lack confidence and that is what women are looking for, wether they admit it or not.

Don't be a prick, but don't be nice either. It may sound counter intuitive, but if being nice hasn't worked so far, you may think about changing it.

I dunno. That sounds too much like, "Be a person who is not who you are." I don't even begin to know how I would manage doing that.

The first part of what you said here makes sense to me, but not the last part.

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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This is a line of BS as far as I'm concerned... like the other two guys in this discussion I'm always lumped into the "Nice" guy category... and yet all the women that lump me into that category insist that someday I'll find the right one...

personally I'm at the point where I just don't care about it anymore...

I know, right?! "You're such a sweet guy, some day you'll find the woman who's perfect for you!"

If I'm so wonderful, and you're not toppin' me off with bullshit, then why the fuck ain't YOU interested in me? I'm wonderful, right? You said so yourself. You must be one of those women who is desperate for some self-absorbed asshole to shit on you, so you can complain to your similar friends about how you can't find a "nice guy."

I'm with ya, dude.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Frenchy68 0]

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That sounds too much like, "Be a person who is not who you are." I don't even begin to know how I would manage doing that.

Good. Don't. Be confident in who you are. Stop trying too hard, good things will happen.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."