Ladies, I need to know...

[unformed 0]

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Whose posts have received the most positive attention from the ladies thus far? Frenchy and Bob.dino, right? They obviously know what they are talking about, and I really appreciate having read their answers to the whole "nice guy" myth.

I agree, they know what they're doing, and i agree with them ... we've been arguing over semantics ... take my "nice guy" and define that to a doormat which is closer to the intended meaning, and we agree wholeheartedly.

Regardless, I'm not here looking for your approval anyways ...

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I think that Grue will do just fine if he takes either one of their advice and is himself, not trying to be something or someone that he is not. Grue doesn't need to change himself as a person. He may just have to actually look for a "nice girl" to take out, not a person who is into silly games. His only true problem lies within his choice of women. The right woman would be more than happy to be with a kind and good man. There is no harm in being nice or in treating a woman like gold, if she is truly worth it.

this is the worst advice you can possibly give someone. he comes on here, says this has been happening much too often. obviously what he's doing isn't right. so you tell him to continue doing what he's doing and one day he'll meet a girl who likes him for who he is.

maybe this girl actually really liked him, maybe he sent off vibes of neediness which drove her away. you're so quick to jump on the girl saying that she must be a bitch to do this, and that eventually he'll find a nice girl for him. let me guess, all other girls probably tell him the same thing -- "i'm not it, but someday, you'll find her."

riiiight. i'm sorry, but love isn't this magical thing that happens when two people see each other. the attraction has to be built.

so people always say, "be confident, be yourself and the women will come.".

the thing is, i assure you he's -not being himself- when he's talking to her. there's one thing going through his head .... "what can i do so this girl likes me?" .... that's dead wrong. So then you're being -overly- nice, trying to get the girl to like you, and she subconsciously senses that and loses her attraction for him. She might think she still likes him, she might consciouscly like him, but subconsciously she sees him as a friend, nothing more.

If he knows that he can get away with anything, and to go ahead and do that, and go out and HAVE FUN, for himself, to hell with the girl, he will BE HIMSELF, the girl WILL BE COMFORTABLE, and the girl WILL FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM.

The problem is, when the only thing going though your head is "I really like this girl; I really like this girl; I really like this girl", you're not comfortable, you're not having fun, so she's not having fun, and now is not attracted. So she leaves, and you think you're going to lose her, and you become desperate and start doing things that you think will win her back. But she becomes even more detached, and you try harder. Things go to shit .... Which is why, some people need to be told to specifically NOT DO CERTAIN THINGS.

I don't care if you disagree; but you don't know what the hell you're talking about. If you were right, then every nice guy and geek would have swarms of women around them.

Yeah, women deserve to bet treated like queens, but peasants don't get to lay the queen. Be the king.

edit: fixed a pronoun that was wrong
edit: fixed a verb too

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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

I have not processed anything else in this thread since this quote....

Oh come on, don't go all melty on us. It's not like just because he said it, he's the only guy around who will be sweet to a woman but also will bed her down good and hard!

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Frenchy68 0]

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"be confident, be yourself and the women will come.".

Nope. Be confident, be yourself and the right woman(women) will come. If you go for the quick fix, then by all means, play a part. If you go for something a little deeper, be yourself. The worst thing that could happen is someone being attracted to you for reasons that are not inherent to you.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[bob.dino 1]

I understand where you're coming from; guys may not always be fully aware of what they're doing and you're trying to explain to them what they're changing in their behaviour that's causing them to fail with women.

Unfortunately, your choice of words is impairing your ability to get your point across. Careful choice of words is bloody hard - witness the umteen AAD threads at the moment. Everyone is talking in circles around the same point .


edit: Lots of good advice on writing.

[unformed 0]

i'm not saying be fake .... but most people when they're talking to girls, aren't genuinely being themselves, they are looking for approval from the girl, and therefore are subjecting themselves to the opinion of the girl. a confident person, a man, does not need approval from her, and she will realize that and be attracted to it.

however, someone who is not confident, but is trying to build it, needs to have a general idea what a confident person would or would not do (ie: be able to stop himself when he realizes he is giving signs of neediness) ... once he gets past this early phase, he will begin to believe in himself.

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[unformed 0]

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I'm the guy that's too nice to date

Here is your problem bud. I'm sorry, but guys that girls describe as NICE almost never get described by them as anything else. And their friends are nice. You can be nice, just don't make it your defining trait. Most nice guys lack confidence and that is what women are looking for, wether they admit it or not.

Don't be a prick, but don't be nice either. It may sound counter intuitive, but if being nice hasn't worked so far, you may think about changing it.

I dunno. That sounds too much like, "Be a person who is not who you are." I don't even begin to know how I would manage doing that.

The first part of what you said here makes sense to me, but not the last part.

This is what he means by that:
Do for her what you would do for your friend.
If you just met her, do for her what you would do for a good acquantance ... if you've known each other for a while, do for you other what you'd do for a good friend. Don't do something simply because she's a girl you really like, or because she asked you to do it. That's what he means by stop being nice.

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[ergirl 0]

NO respect.
My opinion is, she had another potential date, but was not sure.....she was planning on doing something with you, but when the other possibility asked she went with them instead.......
She probably did not want to hurt your feelings and ruin the chance of going out later.
Don't make plans with her again, she will never be able to commit to you, because she is always wondering "what else is out there"

Just my opinion???


______________________________________________

"Life is not measured by your number of breaths, but by the moments that take your breath away."

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

You know what's funny? It was kinda recently I was thinking over all this kind of stuff, and contemplating that squicky feeling I get when I realize that I like a girl and have NO idea what the hell reason there is that I should feel like she should like me back,

and I realized that I was objectifying the woman and allowing myself to think of her as more than me, better than me, more important than me -- that the things she does in her life are cooler or more meaningful than the things I do in my life, that she was just someone I should aspire to hoping to get to like me. It discounted the worth that I have, the importance of ME to me.

So what you, unformed, have been saying does make a lot of sense to me, especially in light of what I had begun to realize on my own.

She's not special, she's just another human being living another human life. I may find her physically attractive, maybe even psychologically attractive (by that I mean the person inside, not just the wrapper), but in the end she is not some supreme creature that I should be humbled before.

If any relationship would ever work out between us, I'd have to maintain not only respect and love for her but also my own SELF-respect and SELF-love. Being blinded by how much you think you want someone can screw you up big-time. Makes you think that she is the only one who it's important to keep pleased!

There is so much to think about.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[antifnsocial 0]

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There is so much to think about.

-Jeffrey

Okay, I am not being mean here Jeffrey, I pomise. I just think you think too much about things. It takes the spontaneity out of things and makes us ladies a little nervous. Some things should be felt natural. You KNOW, without thinking about things if it's natural. And if it doesn't work then just say whatever and move on to find the real natural thing. Someone will love you for you if just chill. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it and HAVE FUN.

Please feel free to reply to my posts and pm's, but only if you're smart enough to understand what they really mean.

[tigra 0]

It was definitely rude of her not to at least call, but I'd think back to that telephone conversation on Thursday. My guess is something was said that made her think twice about dating you. And it could have been ANYTHING, not necessarily something bad. Each of us carries around a certain amount of baggage that sometimes makes us hesitant to start new relationships, and because of that, it doesn't always take much to scare someone off. (And that doesn't apply exclusively to women, either!)

[tigra 0]

There's a difference between being a "nice guy" and a doormat, just like there is a difference between being confident and being cocky. I think most women want nice independent confident guys. Contrary to the "nice guy whine" we hear so often, we really don't want cocky jerks who treat us like crap! If you think you are being "too nice" to get or keep a girlfriend, chances are you are being too needy or too submissive instead.

[gmittar 0]

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still around. Jeffrey, I'm so glad you've seen the light! It's all worth it if one person realizes the importance of self respect, and self worth.

To the ladies that keep posting "be yourself" and all that other stuff. I know you mean well, you really do, but it's not what's going to help men with the problem under discussion.

I guess if they were to follow your advice on an absolute level, they'd be also following our advice. The problem arises in that some men can't seem to be themselves with women due to lack of self confidence or self worth.

|>.<|
Seriously, W.T.F. mate?

[unformed 0]

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The problem arises in that some men can't seem to be themselves with women due to lack of self confidence or self worth.

Bingo!

That's what having rules does. It makes men consciously stop doing things that are subconsciously for the sole reason of impressing the woman.

Then, over time, as their confidence goes up, they naturally won't do those things, because they won't care about impressing her.

Then they are doing things for the sole reason of enjoyment, and are truly being themselves.

Problem is, you can't just jump to the final stage without going through all the steps in between.

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[tigra 0]

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The problem arises in that some men can't seem to be themselves with women due to lack of self confidence or self worth.

You can just as easily say that about women. Dating is tough! If you show too much too soon (whether its confidence or vulnerabilty or anything in between) you run the risk of scaring the other person off before you've really had a chance to get to know them. Its better to start slow and casual- afternoon coffee instead of dinner, that kind of thing!

[jumpchikk 0]

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The problem arises in that some men can't seem to be themselves with women due to lack of self confidence or self worth.

You can just as easily say that about women.

Yessss!! This is what I've been trying to say all along... This problem is not gender specific... it happens to both sexes!!

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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The problem arises in that some men can't seem to be themselves with women due to lack of self confidence or self worth.

You can just as easily say that about women.

Yessss!! This is what I've been trying to say all along... This problem is not gender specific... it happens to both sexes!!

Of course it does. Did someone suggest it didn't?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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There's a difference between being a "nice guy" and a doormat, just like there is a difference between being confident and being cocky. I think most women want nice independent confident guys. Contrary to the "nice guy whine" we hear so often, we really don't want cocky jerks who treat us like crap! If you think you are being "too nice" to get or keep a girlfriend, chances are you are being too needy or too submissive instead.

Agreed. That is essentially what I wrote a few posts back.
Acts of desperation, submission and/or overly dramatic or clingy neediness is not acceptable behavior from either a man or woman. Period. That kind of behavior is almost as undesirable as being rude, cocky and arrogant. A guy or girl can be quite "nice" and still treat people with respect and consideration without being a doormat or pathetic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being nice.

[teamjenn1 0]

I'm going to try to think out of the box for a change:
How about if one does what feels... right? And stops playing games?
I heard it works sometimes.

[teamjenn1 0]

Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

DAMN....that's hot!!!

[teamjenn1 0]

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Doesn't mean that later on I'm not going to throw her down and ravish her to within an inch of her life.

DAMN....that's hot!!!

I dunno... sounds rather like sex as a punishment...

I'm gonna go with "throw her down and make passionate love with her til the sun rises. And then blow off work and do the same til dinner time. Grab a bite and then back to bed until the sun..." Final answer, Regis.

-Jeffrey