hackish 8
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bliston 0
There seems to be a misconception about line dump. If I understand it correctly, actually line-dump is when the canopy starts to inflate (it literally needs to be out of the bag) before the lines are at full extension. This causes a brutally hard opening. As long a a bag has locking stows or the equivalent to keep the canopy in the bag until there is tension on the lines, that won't happen. The lazy bag (the one with the thick spectra or dacron "prongs" that go through grommets and then back in to "slots" on the bag) should theoretically take care of this.
The other bag from one of the links that is just held closed with magnets makes me a bit more nervous than the one with the cord closure system that is tucked through grommets.
It's not much different that a reserve free-bag (most designs anyone) which has two locking stows (made out of one safety stow) and then the rest of the line free stowed in a velcro pouch.
Ben
The other bag from one of the links that is just held closed with magnets makes me a bit more nervous than the one with the cord closure system that is tucked through grommets.
It's not much different that a reserve free-bag (most designs anyone) which has two locking stows (made out of one safety stow) and then the rest of the line free stowed in a velcro pouch.
Ben
Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website
sticks!
sticks!
QuoteThere seems to be a misconception about line dump. If I understand it correctly, actually line-dump is when the canopy starts to inflate (it literally needs to be out of the bag) before the lines are at full extension. This causes a brutally hard opening. As long a a bag has locking stows or the equivalent to keep the canopy in the bag until there is tension on the lines, that won't happen. The lazy bag (the one with the thick spectra or dacron "prongs" that go through grommets and then back in to "slots" on the bag) should theoretically take care of this.
You are right. "Line dump" is an urban myth... AFAIK no one has been able to document in on film. The canopy will stay in the bag until the locking stows are released and you can’t have an out of sequence deployment with the canopy still in the bag.
I built this bag a few years ago, see attachments, and put over 1000 jumps on it with 3 different canopies. Never had a problem related to the bag design.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
HALO1 0
I could be mistaken, but doesn't the PDFT use a similar system... or at least a few of them? I recall one of them packing next to me and he clearly used a "figure 8" to stow the lines. The lines were then secured using tuck tabs. He was finished in just minutes. I remeber thinking to myself, would be great to have something simlialr in my Mirage. But, figured it was a "one-off from Sunpath to the team.
Don't be sexist… Broads hate that.
QuoteQuoteThere seems to be a misconception about line dump. If I understand it correctly, actually line-dump is when the canopy starts to inflate (it literally needs to be out of the bag) before the lines are at full extension. This causes a brutally hard opening. As long a a bag has locking stows or the equivalent to keep the canopy in the bag until there is tension on the lines, that won't happen. The lazy bag (the one with the thick spectra or dacron "prongs" that go through grommets and then back in to "slots" on the bag) should theoretically take care of this.
You are right. "Line dump" is an urban myth... AFAIK no one has been able to document in on film. The canopy will stay in the bag until the locking stows are released and you can’t have an out of sequence deployment with the canopy still in the bag.
I built this bag a few years ago, see attachments, and put over 1000 jumps on it with 3 different canopies. Never had a problem related to the bag design.
Sparky
Very impressive mjosparky
Im guessing you are a qualified rigger yes?!
Winkey 0
I have a very similar design for my main, It's a regular 2 grommet D-bag with a parapack pocket sewn to the back of it... only difference is i don't have any velcro or magnets or tuck tabs, just an open pocket
i've had beautiful openings for the past 400+ jumps (katana 120)
i've had beautiful openings for the past 400+ jumps (katana 120)
QuoteIm guessing you are a qualified rigger yes?!
It all depends on what your definition of “qualified” is and who you talk to.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
QuoteI could be mistaken, but doesn't the PDFT use a similar system... or at least a few of them? I recall one of them packing next to me and he clearly used a "figure 8" to stow the lines. The lines were then secured using tuck tabs. He was finished in just minutes. I remeber thinking to myself, would be great to have something simlialr in my Mirage. But, figured it was a "one-off from Sunpath to the team.
The PDFT used the lazy bag. There was an agreement between Javelin and Ludo Havelaars (the man behind the lazybag)
QuoteFrom a technical point of view I'm not that confident with the design. The lazy bag does not do anything to try and guarantee that the opening is staged correctly. If the bag closing tabs end up being tugged out before you reach linestretch it could definitely contribute to a mal.
-Michael
Euh?
Stop jumping now. When you deploy your parachute and 1 rubberband breaks during deploiement, ... Or even worse, you have to use your reserve and 1 of the lockingstows fails?
That risk is higher than what you describes.
Jump a lazybag, try it and give us some feedback.
Jurgen
I have been using scott roberts design and have put several hundred jumps on it with a velo and katana and have even packed it wrong several times testing it out and have had nothing but nice openings with it and pledge by his design. You should contact him if you are interested in getting one or learning more about them and mention the name Shane to him!
hackish 8
Quote
Stop jumping now. When you deploy your parachute and 1 rubberband breaks during deploiement, ... Or even worse, you have to use your reserve and 1 of the lockingstows fails?
That risk is higher than what you describes.
Jump a lazybag, try it and give us some feedback.
The reserve requires the lines to be pulled from the freebag before any stress is placed on the locking stow. If it breaks at that point it has already done it's job.
On my Vector3 main bag you would need probably 3 of 4 elastics to fail before it could debag itself. Considering all the lines are stowed on elastics there is a very good chance you already got a properly staged deployment at that point anyway.
The point I'm trying to make here is that the elastics are there for a very good reason - to stage the opening. I fail to understand how removing them replaces their function.
-Michael
did you not see the video of how the system operates that is linked on one of the first few posts..
if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell
Perry Farrell
Quote
I built this bag a few years ago, see attachments, and put over 1000 jumps on it with 3 different canopies. Never had a problem related to the bag design.
Sparky
It's like a D-bag meets a tail pocket with two locking stows instead of one.
I find that using a tail pocket requires a packing mat (stash bag and a little pony clamp works fine) attached to the rig to prevent wear as I drag it towards me and takes a bit longer than separate line stows walking the bag to the rig with no mat.
What's you're packing experience like with the hybrid?
I currently believe that the lazy bag is a solution in search of a problem since you get rid of tube stoe replacement which is infrequent at the expense of packing time which is spent on every jump.
Might be good for marketting though, like velcro elimination on risers (it was bad for flaps so it must be bad for toggles)
Do other people find themselves getting more onry (which I can't spell) as they age or is it just stress?
Quote
It's like a D-bag meets a tail pocket with two locking stows instead of one.
...
What's you're packing experience like with the hybrid?
...
I currently believe that the lazy bag is a solution in search of a problem since you get rid of tube stoe replacement which is infrequent at the expense of packing time which is spent on every jump.
The lazy bag saves my thumbs. No more pain after a weekend of jumping and packing.
Most of the jumpers do not drag their rig. They do the two locking stows and than they walk to their rig, put the bag on the ground and stow away the rest of the lines.
Jurgen
PS Over here lot's of jumpers use a lazy bag.
On a reserve freebag the pocket is setup to be emptied first and the lines must then pull themselves from 2 stows before the canopy is allowed to exit. The same sort of principle has worked for years even back into round deployment diapers.
My concern here is that I see nothing to stop a good hard snatch from the PC from extracting the lines and canopy from the bag all at the same time.
-Michael
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