skisurfer 0 #1 September 21, 2008 Today i was jumping my own rig for the first time. Exit height was 10 and deployment was 7, just to get a feel for the different canopy! On deployment of my pilot chute (From BOC) and starting my saftey count, i found after 3 secs i realised i had a pilot chute (hesitation) in tow, looking over my shoulder, "i am still to work out what happened next", in an instant ???? i found my self head down, on my back with the pilot chute in tow between my legs still in freefall! whilst reaching for my handles, the main deployed, but from where or how is still a blur .. Can anyone shed light on how i ended up head down and on my back, and where did the main deploy from there . Landing safley, i changed the closing loop and and borrowed a larger pilot chute .. opening was great and on heading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #2 September 21, 2008 QuoteCan anyone shed light on how i ended up head down and on my back, and where did the main deploy from there This will probably be moved from the Incident forum to Safty/Training, but I'd suspect you lost stability and rolled over while looking at your pilot chute as it trailed above you. Use just a turn of the head and your perifial vision to see it behind you, while remianing stable works best. Did you make sure the pc was cocked, if its a kill line pc?www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #3 September 21, 2008 I get the impression that you are really new to this sport. Your lack of awareness and body position control are alarming, but understandable at your level of experience. Get a copy of the SIM, and study the recommended EP's for PC in tow, and other malfunctions. Drill them, practice them, so that you know exactly what to do and you do not waste precious time "finding yourself" in uncontrolled body positions or unable to correct a malfunction. PC in tow can usually be fixed or cutaway as soon as its recognized, without getting tangled up in your bridle and going in. Talk to your instructors about this, after you've reviewed Malfunctions and EP's in the SIM, again (or for the first time). ps- you got on your head and back by trying to look over your shoulder, de-arching and losing control of your body position due to focusing on the malfunction. Your main was probably released by the change of pressure on the pin due to the increased speed of your body position. In this case, you were lucky. Thats not the right way to fix a PC in tow. Glad you're still here though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #4 September 21, 2008 Quote Today i was jumping my own rig for the first time. Exit height was 10 and deployment was 7, just to get a feel for the different canopy! On deployment of my pilot chute (From BOC) and starting my saftey count, i found after 3 secs i realised i had a pilot chute (hesitation) in tow, looking over my shoulder, "i am still to work out what happened next", in an instant ???? i found my self head down, on my back with the pilot chute in tow between my legs still in freefall! whilst reaching for my handles, the main deployed, but from where or how is still a blur .. Can anyone shed light on how i ended up head down and on my back, and where did the main deploy from there . Landing safley, i changed the closing loop and and borrowed a larger pilot chute .. opening was great and on heading. Did you see the pilot chute in tow? Could it be that you were unstable/head down when you tossed? I've never done that, but it seems the pilot chute, if in tow, would create enough drag to keep you belly to earth, like a tandem drogue chute. Crazy shit man! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger..... go buy a lottery ticket Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #5 September 21, 2008 I am also going to assume that you have not been in the sport long and don't have many jumps. An accurate profile is a good thing. I hope that you talked to a rigger before you started changing things on your gear. A large pilot chute if not needed can add to hard openings in some cases. You should really try to figure out why you had a pilot chute in tow before you start changing gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #6 September 21, 2008 Quote it seems the pilot chute, if in tow, would create enough drag to keep you belly to earth, like a tandem drogue chute. You kidding, right? www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #7 September 21, 2008 >Can anyone shed light on how i ended up head down and on my back . . Most likely you: 1) had a lazy throw 2) the PC ended up on your back 3) you then tried to see it; the attempt rolled you onto your back 4) the PC caught air and tried to launch from the wrong side of you 5) PC ended up between your legs 6) the drag eventually spun you into a position your main could deploy. >Landing safley, i changed the closing loop and and borrowed a larger pilot chute . A larger PC won't help with lazy throws. >but it seems the pilot chute, if in tow, would create enough drag to keep >you belly to earth, like a tandem drogue chute. In the case he described a PC in tow will not keep him stable; indeed, it will help keep him unstable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhathaway 0 #8 September 21, 2008 Well, yesterday I had a PC in tow, then a baglock, and eventually line twist that I cut away from. I was looking over my shoulder at what I just said, and can tell you I never rolled over, but the fact that anyone does, it completely understandable. Not something you want to do obviously, but understandable how it happens. You roll just a little bit too far, and get some air on the wrong side of you, and over you go. When you're not used to how something deploys, and you look to try to identify the problem.My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #9 September 21, 2008 Quote Today i was jumping my own rig for the first time. Exit height was 10 and deployment was 7, just to get a feel for the different canopy! On deployment of my pilot chute (From BOC) and starting my saftey count, i found after 3 secs i realised i had a pilot chute (hesitation) in tow, looking over my shoulder, "i am still to work out what happened next", in an instant ???? i found my self head down, on my back with the pilot chute in tow between my legs still in freefall! whilst reaching for my handles, the main deployed, but from where or how is still a blur .. Can anyone shed light on how i ended up head down and on my back, and where did the main deploy from there . Landing safley, i changed the closing loop and and borrowed a larger pilot chute .. opening was great and on heading. First jump on your rig, what kind, size and what size main is in it? Is it used gear? There is one container out there built in the early 2000's that you do not want to stuff a larger main into it or you may experience pc in tow or hesitations regularly. Looks like everyone covered your body position issue, Im just curious as to why it hesitated on you, assuming it wasn't closing loop as mentioned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #10 September 22, 2008 You should get a better packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skisurfer 0 #11 September 22, 2008 Yes u are right, i am very new to the sport .. I had talked and been briefed on the gear by my CI and rigger prior to jumping the gear. The pilot chute as collapsiable and was cocked. I also spoke to my rigger after the jump, whom in turn changed the pilot chute and the closing loop. Building the courage and confidence is going to be hard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skisurfer 0 #12 September 22, 2008 thanks for the advise on periphial vision etc! The pilot chute is collapsiable but was most certainly cocked .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skisurfer 0 #13 September 22, 2008 Yep first jump on first rig .. it is used gear, Mirage G3 2001' 190 main .. my Rigger fully inspected the RIG! High speed Mal is very scary when new to the sport Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 September 22, 2008 Quotei realised i had a pilot chute (hesitation) in tow, Check with your EP instructor. I don't know about Australia but here in the USA there is a distinct differentation between Pilot Chute in Tow (PCIT) and pilot chute hesitation. The issue of stability while checking over your shoulder has already been addressed. What to do next if you see a hesitation is different than what to do if you see a PCIT. Be very clear on which is which and how to handle each. As you can see, some here responded to your description as PCIT while others responded to a hesitation. Which was it really?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #15 September 22, 2008 Quote Yep first jump on first rig .. it is used gear, Mirage G3 2001' 190 main .. my Rigger fully inspected the RIG! High speed Mal is very scary when new to the sport Yup thats what I thought, what size G3? If the 190 is not what that Mirage G3 was made for and you are "stuffing" the 190 in it, then it doesnt surprise me that you are having these issues. The bridle is getting caught on the pin flap cover, the corner where it is hotknifed. The newer G3 and 4's have that part now sewn under the closing flap thus eliminating a snag point. Its hard to explain here but bottom line is: if you are stuffing the main into a main trey built for a smaller size you have greatly increased the chance of having the bridle hesitate or in tow. A rigger inspection will not catch this because there is nothing to be seen, everything will look normal. This was a "design" flaw in a sense, but only becomes that when over stuffing the main. hope that helps J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #16 September 22, 2008 Quote Yep first jump on first rig .. it is used gear, Mirage G3 2001' 190 main .. my Rigger fully inspected the RIG! High speed Mal is very scary when new to the sport I wanted to correct one piece of my explanation, the pin cover is sewn to the bottom closing flap not the right one. It is the sewn part that is catching the bridle, It catches at the top right corner of the sewn piece. Basically the attachment part of the pin cover is the problem. J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #17 September 23, 2008 QuoteQuotei realised i had a pilot chute (hesitation) in tow, Check with your EP instructor. I don't know about Australia but here in the USA there is a distinct differentation between Pilot Chute in Tow (PCIT) and pilot chute hesitation. The issue of stability while checking over your shoulder has already been addressed. What to do next if you see a hesitation is different than what to do if you see a PCIT. Be very clear on which is which and how to handle each. As you can see, some here responded to your description as PCIT while others responded to a hesitation. Which was it really? Good point! Surely by definition and description this is a pilot chute hesitation? We were taught that a PC in tow is a full on malfunction and needs to be cut away asap...as its not going to open (probably not anyway) but a PC hesitation by definition should do its job once it gets an airflow change! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
