Relining my main - Is Sabre openings sensitive to this?

[mdrejhon 8]

Hello,

I have put more than 300 jumps on my Sabre 170, and it is now due for a reline due to the fraying. Now is a good time, as I'm between major skydiving trips.

Riggers, in your experience, is the Sabre canopy very sensitive to openings with a reline?

I've been happy with its openings in the last couple hundred jumps, but I'm kind of hesitant about getting slammers the Sabre can be famous for, especially since I often have to open right near the very end of a long track after at the end of a big way. (I open while I flare my track, which helps soften the openings)

[XitXitXit 0]

Are you talking about a Sabre I or II?

When I had my Sabre I relined the openings got worse than when the canopy was out of trim. I have since had a pocket slider installed and the openings are the best I've ever had on any canopy I've ever jumped.....

Hope that helps...

There are no pessimist in skydiving.

[likestojump 3]

As a data point can you let us know if the 300 jumps you put on your Sabre were all since new or did you buy it used with xxx amount of jumps on the lines ? Because you are confusing a lot of people with that bit of information - microlines should not need replacing due to fraying at 300 jumps unless your slider grommets feel like sand paper :)

Personally I have had plenty of original Sabres and Sabre2's relined with good results. For the most part openings have been "Back to stock". If you have an original Sabre get PD to put a newer large slider on it if you have not yet.

as far as opeinig when you are flaring out of your track - how does that soften your openings ? When you are just flaring out your speed has not been reduced yet so your canopy is thrown into a higher speed airstream. If anything that should swing you more as you are not only going down but also forward. I again ASSume that you mean you did not bleed off all of the speed you built in the track.

cya

[mdrejhon 8]

You're right. I apologize for omitting that info:
I believe I have probably the original dacron lineset for a 1993 Sabre that was a closet queen for most of its lifetime; it's not microline. I bought this canopy used as 175 jumps, so the lineset/canopy now has nearly 600 jumps after I began jumping this rig/canopy at jump #57. The brakes got relined about 300 jumps. (Even though it is one of the early manufactures of the Sabre 1, during a Relative Workshop factory rigger inspection they have commented that my canopy is in excellent shape. A couple of other riggers have remarked that my canopy is in such excellent shape for its age.)

At the base of the lines is completely black now with dirt (this started happening only during 2008 due to my 70 jumps at dusty Skydive Perris), and a rigger at Perris confirmed it's fine for 50 more jumps. A hundred jumps before that, a different local rigger said it was good for 100 more. So it's definitely a reline that's needed "sometime in the near term", confirmed by two separate riggers. Now it's a couple dozen jumps later since that Skydive Perris rigger said "about 50 more jumps". The lineset's served me well, but whether it needs relining is no longer in question, especially after a hundred extra jumps at multiple dusty dropzones to the point of blackening/minor fraying at the S-links area -- and minor fraying on all lines now ("25 more jumps league" fraying) -- yes the S-links are finally black with dirt -- so I'm relining before my next jump. The 2008 Perris dirt is amazingly abrasive...

Reline isn't the question here -- I'm just concerned about the grapevine reports that relining can create slammers. (ouch) I'll just have to do a few test jumps (non-bigway-camp events) and determine whether to upgrade the slider... Some people just do semi-major rig maintenance then go straight into a bigway or swoop event (and I'm even guilty of doing that too, at least once); but it looks like I'll have to pretend to be a testjumper before I go to an event; and get my rig fine-tuned (slider, etc) if necessary after trying out the reline in some easy jumps -- I don't want to witness Sabre 1 slammers (though I haven't experienced them in the last couple hundred jumps).

________

Softer openings in a track:
Actually it's true: You can get a brief moment of slightly-subterminal fallrate when you do a good aggressive flare at the end of a track. This is many peoples' personal experiences with a good high speed 25 second track at the outer of a 50-way to 100-way bigway; doing your best high-speed track and then flaring aggressively (backslide/stopping motion) converts your horizontal speed into reduced vertical fallrate; leading to a small window (about 2-3 seconds worth or so) of subterminal fallrate, so when a pull is timed within this window, you get a subterminal opening after a track!

See my article:
How Pulling At End Of A Track Can Lead To Softer NOT Harder Openings; If Timed Right.

Note: Obviously, this shouldn't be #1 concern; safety (swivel headedness, clearing airspace, etc) is #1.

[Buffdiver 0]

My first canopy was a Sabre 170. Lines were horrible but it opened perfectly. I relined the canopy and replaced the original slider with a new PD slider. Openings were exactly the same, the canopy was just more responsive. I have nothing bad to say about the original Sabres. I have had way harder openings on newer canopies. Reline, new slider, and you should be good to go.

I'd like to add that I have had more consistent on heading openings with the original Sabre than with any other canopy. Could be my packing, body position... but it always was a reliable canopy in my mind.

[riggerrob 643]

-- I don't want to witness Sabre 1 slammers (though I haven't experienced them in the last couple hundred jumps).

......................................................................

Sounds like you have mastered packing Sabre 1, so new lines will make little difference in opening shock.

My Sabre 1-170, 150 and 135 only slapped me when I packed sloppily.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

I believe I have probably the original dacron lineset for a 1993 Sabre that was a closet queen for most of its lifetime; it's not microline. I bought this canopy used as 175 jumps, so the lineset/canopy now has nearly 600 jumps after I began jumping this rig/canopy at jump #57.

The short answer is tha at 600 jumps on the dacron lines you need a reline, no matter how magically sturdy those lines are :) And I personally don't think it'll get worse. And I would also recommend sticking with Dacron - your back will think you later.

Not enough time to talk about flaring in a track, but when I free up I will try to add something constructive in the other thread. And of course will also be waiting for some wisdom from mjosparky :)

[monkycndo 0]

Quote

waiting for some wisdom from mjosparky :)

Muwhahahahahahaha



Seriously folks, relined my Sa170. Openings improved. Still have it and use it in my backup rig. Never been slammed, on a stock slider.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[mdrejhon 8]

I've made a decision: Straight back to Performance Designs for reline. Straight to PD, don’t pass go, don’t collect $200 [monopoly reference].

Apparently I'm told by a local rigger, that it's cheaper to do this than to do it with local riggers; maybe that's cuz PD has a good speedy "reline jig" of some kind... And yes, I'm certainly going to stick to Dacron, I'm not going to be swooping professionally or care about that extra few feet...


Update -- I recalculated the number of jumps; including loans to others, but excluding rentals I did (which means I didn't jump Sabre), the canopy actually has only a hair above 500 jumps not 600 -- my miscalculation.

[riggerrob 643]

500 jumps versus 600 ... it is still due for re-lining.

PD just charges you for the cost of lines. You still have to pay extra for shipping and tolerate a few weeks of down time.
Local rigger will have to charge you three or four hours labor (on top of the cost of a line kit bought from PD). The only way a local rigger can compete - with the PD factory - is on reduced down-time ... usually one day.