hungarianchick 0 #51 March 17, 2005 Once I saw a tiger on TV whose de-clawing procedure went wrong. He got an infection that rendered his front legs from the elbow down limp and useless so he had to shuffle around on his elbows. It was pitiful. Yes, I think de-clawing is cruel and unnecessary. "I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #52 March 17, 2005 QuoteUnecessary surgical mutilation of animals is banned in the whole EU as far as I'm aware. Rotts and sheepdogs have tails, cats have claws, and ears remain as supplied on the original models. How about getting animals spayed or neutered? Any objections to surgically removing sex organs so we don't have to worry about too many kitties and puppies roaming the streets? Which is worse? Declawing or spaying/neutering? Neither are medically necessary for the health of the animal? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Girlfalldown 0 #53 March 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteUnecessary surgical mutilation of animals is banned in the whole EU as far as I'm aware. Rotts and sheepdogs have tails, cats have claws, and ears remain as supplied on the original models. How about getting animals spayed or neutered? Any objections to surgically removing sex organs so we don't have to worry about too many kitties and puppies roaming the streets? Which is worse? Declawing or spaying/neutering? Neither are medically necessary for the health of the animal? Actually spaying and neutering is for the health of animals otherwise we end up having them put to sleep when homeless ones are found wandering around because no one wants them. Someone else could probably word that a lot better than me.... -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superman0710 0 #54 March 17, 2005 final thought: i don't like the idea of de-clawed cats. but i understand sometimes its necessary. some of you guys really need to step out of the black/white zone and come over the the gray area. things look real nice from here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #55 March 17, 2005 Hmm, maybe you're right. I could be mistaking hatefulness and personal attacks for trolling Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Girlfalldown 0 #56 March 17, 2005 Quotefinal thought: i don't like the idea of de-clawed cats. but i understand sometimes its necessary. some of you guys really need to step out of the black/white zone and come over the the gray area. things look real nice from here I hope you're not referring to me. I think all animals have the right to botox and implants. -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superman0710 0 #57 March 17, 2005 QuoteHmm, maybe you're right. I could be mistaking hatefulness and personal attacks for trolling [/yourself] ironically enough, it was i getting personally attacked on page 1 before the offender's post was deleted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #58 March 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteUnecessary surgical mutilation of animals is banned in the whole EU as far as I'm aware. Rotts and sheepdogs have tails, cats have claws, and ears remain as supplied on the original models. How about getting animals spayed or neutered? Any objections to surgically removing sex organs so we don't have to worry about too many kitties and puppies roaming the streets? Which is worse? Declawing or spaying/neutering? Neither are medically necessary for the health of the animal? Actually spaying and neutering is for the health of animals otherwise we end up having them put to sleep when homeless ones are found wandering around because no one wants them. Someone else could probably word that a lot better than me.... It also prevents many cancers in both males and females and prevents uterus infections in females. For example my cat had an 80% chance of getting testicular cancer had he not been spayed. Yes it was a male who got spayed....neither of his testies dropped. Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #59 March 17, 2005 QuoteActually spaying and neutering is for the health of animals otherwise we end up having them put to sleep when homeless ones are found wandering around because no one wants them. Hmmm. Most homeless cats seem to do all right. They get food, breed, and manage to take care of themselves. The response, however, begs the issue - why do we put cats asleep that nobody wants. Isn't it simply a matter of convenience for humans to do so? And if that's the case, is not declawing of cats also for the convenience of humans? And both being true, do not both acts victimize an otherwise helpless cat to unnecessary surgery? Well, unnecessary outside the realm of human desires and comfort... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SniperCJ 0 #60 March 17, 2005 QuoteQuote and no I DO NOT like cropped tails or ears on dogs. I've never heard of cropped ears being anything other than a vanity alteration... Not entirely true. In pit-fighting docking the ears gives the other dog less of a hold.. So its not *only* a vanity thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #61 March 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteif you take my fuckin fingers off, i'm not holding shit. so find a new analogy. Didnt say the whole finger, just part of it...and yes you can still hold stuff..... So no you try again.... I think he needs to buzz off tooTunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #62 March 17, 2005 QuoteWhich is worse? Declawing or spaying/neutering? Neither are medically necessary for the health of the animal? Actually spaying a female dog reduces her risk of uterine cancer in some cases eliminates it. Talking from first hand exp here, we had to put down our dobie at 10 years old due to uterine cancer. Vet said if we would have spayed her cancer would not have been an issue. Same can be said for male dogs, and testicular cancer. You can't compare spaying/nuetering to declawing. The former does have medical advantages and is not cruel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #63 March 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteActually spaying and neutering is for the health of animals otherwise we end up having them put to sleep when homeless ones are found wandering around because no one wants them. Hmmm. Most homeless cats seem to do all right. They get food, breed, and manage to take care of themselves. The response, however, begs the issue - why do we put cats asleep that nobody wants. Isn't it simply a matter of convenience for humans to do so? And if that's the case, is not declawing of cats also for the convenience of humans? And both being true, do not both acts victimize an otherwise helpless cat to unnecessary surgery? Well, unnecessary outside the realm of human desires and comfort... Yes it is and euthanizing isn't any better than de-clawing or ear-docking. I'm not a hardliner, and do understand why the person with the Jack Russell de-clawed his cat, I'm sure it wasn't an easy choice. Personally I wouldn't do it, but then again this is the last cat I will ever get. I'm just not a cat person, but when I rescued him I promised him a forever home so as long as I'm still alive he will have a safe place to live and lots of love. Well except when he pisses on the bathroom floor then there is no love for him. The whole peeing on the floor is a long story having to do with a certain water obsession he has. He will get in the shower with you just to get to running water he does not care about getting wet. So on Saturdays when you go in to go to the bathroom to pee and don't get in the shower right away he won't leave the bathroom for any reason until you take a shower so he can get in. So rather than leaving the room to use his litter box he will pee in the bathroom. He does not have a bladder infection or anything like that, he is just a freak! Edit to add- Now that I think about it he probably does it cause I taught the dog not to let him claw the furniture. Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Girlfalldown 0 #64 March 17, 2005 Quote Hmmm. Most homeless cats seem to do all right. They get food, breed, and manage to take care of themselves. The response, however, begs the issue - why do we put cats asleep that nobody wants. Isn't it simply a matter of convenience for humans to do so? And if that's the case, is not declawing of cats also for the convenience of humans? And both being true, do not both acts victimize an otherwise helpless cat to unnecessary surgery? Well, unnecessary outside the realm of human desires and comfort... I get what you're saying. It really is all for human convenience I think. I still think I'd rather have a wild cat neutered/spayed than have it have litter after litter of kittens that humans eventually catch and have put to sleep. Just my opinion. I'm not really into declawing animals or cutting their ears off to make them look "cool" or whatever but I do think spaying and neutering helps unnecessary death and disease. Just my opinion. For the record I didn't really get my lab breast implants. -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #65 March 17, 2005 Are things a little too quiet in the Speaker's Corner today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #66 March 17, 2005 Just for the record, I'm not for declawing or cropping. I'm not particularly against declawing, either, nor am I against spaying, neutering and euthenizing. I am against arguments that, "The dog could ovarian cancer, so remove them now." I'd rather that the dog keep its organs and get spayed if she develops ovarian cancer. But, for the record, I don't see much difference for the individual cat whether he is emasculated or has his claws removed. Either way, neither are necessary for tha animal, and both are done sheerly for the sake of human convenience. Also, for the record, I support spaying/neutering. It's an arbitrary distinction I'm happy with. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #67 March 17, 2005 Before someone explained to me the surgery I was for it....once we owned cats and researched it, I found it to be cruel....and now have the scars on my hands/arms to prove it. (turns out cats are jealous when you play on the computer and try to jump and grab your arm)_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #68 March 17, 2005 LOL, if I had to chose between having parts of my fingers removed or having my balls cut off, I think I'll take the finger option. I have two cats, both declawed. The other option was death. I have on dog, his tail is docked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #69 March 17, 2005 Quote I am against arguments that, "The dog could ovarian cancer, so remove them now." I'd rather that the dog keep its organs and get spayed if she develops ovarian cancer. That's the thing, your pet can't tell you something is wrong, and cancer is a horrible thing for anyone to go through human or animal. What are the odds of catching it in time, normally cancer in animals is caught to late. There are no standard yearly tests for them like their are for humans. They have to wait until they are showing obvious problems or have an obvious lump. So for now the lesser of the 2 evils is take them out early to prevent any problems in the future. Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #70 March 17, 2005 The people that I lived with about 20 years ago declawed their kitten. I thought it was absolutely terrible to see that poor little cat limping around in such agony for several days after the operation. We have 3 cats and none are or ever will be declawed.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #71 March 17, 2005 QuoteI have two cats, both declawed. The other option was death. Why was it declaw or death? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lizzieb 0 #72 March 17, 2005 i wouldn't declaw my kitty...we trained her where she is allowed to scratch...and when we noticed her scratching the new couch we bought nail clippers. now i spend 5 minutes, once a week or so clipping. she doesn't mind it, and it keeps our apartment in good shape! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #73 March 18, 2005 Quotei said the degree of handicapping is not equivalent. apparently reading comprehension owns you. Apparently you have a problem with anthropomorphy. You want to stand up and explain why you think that as a human the degree of handicap is different. Since you are no a feline, it's extremely unlikely that you have any perspective from a cats point of view. You are just another link in a food chain pal.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #74 March 18, 2005 Well since it has been explained that declawing a cat involves removing part of the fingers, another argument for doing it may be to prevent things like this: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/bizarre/031005_APsn_catshoot.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #75 March 18, 2005 QuoteHave you seeen the plastic claw covers? Interesting: http://www.softpaws.com/"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
