Toggle to unTwist?

[diablopilot 2]

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Many experienced jumpers used toggles on linetwists.

Guess again.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rehmwa 2]

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Many experienced jumpers used toggles on linetwists.

Guess again.

Pulling toggles prior to clearing twists sounds like a terrible idea and is specifically trained against. Frankly, if there are several twists, releasing a toggle would, at best, just give you a loose toggle while the line is caught up in the twists above. At worst, it'll 'partly' release and cause more heartache, maybe some tangles now too.

If there are few twists, then kick out. Lots of twists? releasing a toggle is a time waster we can't afford.

edit: maybe it could have affect on a giant, passive student canopy, those twists aren't so tight, just very slow to untwist, but then there is no reason to release the toggle prior to untwisting. It would be very dumb to do so in that scenario.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Simple and easy - follow the back lines of lower end of linetwist.
It leads to toggle needed for steering canopy in direction of untwisting.

I think your assertion is incorrect.
The toggle that would need to be pulled probably depends more on the symmetry of the twist than the direction of twist.
A canopy starts turning because one side has shorter lines than the other. To stop that turn or counteract it, you would have to deflect the opposite side of the canopy.

For example, if you had a twist that began 6 inches from the right risers and 3 inches from the left risers, then you would probably have to pull the left toggle to stop the canopy from turning, regardless of whether it was a Z or S twist.
The effective line length from the canopy to the confluence point (ie top of twists) would be shorter on the right side of the canopy than the left side.

Higher WLs have a much greater propensity to go into a rapid spiral very quickly compared to lower WLs.
In a rapid spin, the centripetal forces can literally incapacitate jumpers. (Go look up Chris Martin.)

All-in-all, I think it is much better to immediately cutaway and pull reserve when a line twist situation turns into a rapidly spinning death spiral.

.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[format 1]

>>it's probable I'll discover I'll need to pull silver when I realize I can't kick out of them
>>would rather wait until dozens of jumpers claim that the toggle-pull worked
>>Spinning linetwists on highly loaded ellipticals can twist SO tightly that it can make it impossible to pull cutaway because the linetwists holds the cutaway line in place


I nurish my fears, they're with me when needed. It's impressive how productive they are, providing there's no panic nowhere near.

I've feared both, G forces and that I wouldn't be able to cutaway on 2 foot long twist on Micra lines,
surprisingly it wasn't SO hard and I could chop with one hand, beside that my left hand was on the way to help anyway (thanks to same fear as yours)

Talking of G forces, have you ever spiraled down on purpose?
I guess we all did once or more but.. I don't remember me spiraling hard left, while checking G's with my right hand - how hard it is to pull it from down to up, the hand I mean. I will try that once.

Fast spinner is not a phenommenon, it's flying under command, unwanted, uncontrolled but commanded. Asymmetry causes stronger input on one canopy side.

What I hate is the fact that, in my case, it flew straight until I've spread risers. So it is ME who commanded it into spin. I hate it.
And I did nothing but procedure I've been taught to apply.

My point is that no procedure is 100% safe.. so..
I have no doubt that somebody is going down bad, just by trying to toggle it out.
The way things are so far, it's probably goin' to be me 'cause I ain't spreadin' no more.

It was a pleasure reading your post

What goes around, comes later.

[format 1]

>a loose toggle
>releasing a toggle is a time waster we can't afford.

It's pulled down, both hands, until untwist, nothing loose
Kickin is The slow timer

>maybe it could have affect on a giant, passive student canopy, those twists aren't so tight

no need, kicking is good for giants.
Both hands on toggle wins against 8 hands needed on correct risers, which many apply (with moanin')

this is exausting, the writing

What goes around, comes later.

[format 1]

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The toggle that would need to be pulled probably depends more on the symmetry of the twist than the direction of twist.

I can say nothing but that beside logic, I've exprimented enough, discussed and evidently tryed it in air practice.. and all that
BEFORE I've dared posting for help before you, amongst others like you, you are realy hard to get help from.
What ends well... is what counts

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All-in-all, I think it is much better to immediately cutaway and pull reserve when a line twist situation turns into a rapidly spinning death spiral.

Sure I agree but there's a small time gap and question is how to make the most of it before chop

I'm just sick of cutaways and I'm happy I've skipped one

So, I am sharing - hoping to learn

weekend is tmmorow
if u don't hear from me - Disregard ALL my posts

What goes around, comes later.

[tetra316 0]

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I'm just sick of cutaways and I'm happy I've skipped one

Maybe you need to look into why you have had multiple cutaways with only a 100 jumps

I have over 1600 and have yet to have a real cutaway (knocks on wood).

[CazmoDee 3]

"Maybe you need to look into why you have had multiple cutaways with only a 100 jumps."

X2

At 140 jumps, I haven't had to chop one yet. (knocking on desk)

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[format 1]

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Maybe you need to look into why you have had multiple cutaways with only a 100 jumps
I have over 1600 and have yet to have a real cutaway (knocks on wood).

Less traveled road I've picked, maybe?
I don't know, didn't pack it, was stable, blablabla, who cares,
the "them" says I did ok, including da 3000+ jumps instructor who never Rsrvd, like you

Let's toggle back the subject

What goes around, comes later.

[Broke 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1437439;search_string=linetwists;#1437439

Why don't you take a look in the Incidents forum, as well as in the Incidents pages of thew Parachutist

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[format 1]

Sure I have, at the time.
It has nothing to do with this thread.

What goes around, comes later.

[Broke 0]

Welp I conceed. I will wait for the story about you to come to print.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[tetra316 0]

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Welp I conceed. I will wait for the story about you to come to print.

Better yet make sure you buy in

[DougH 270]

Why are you guys and gals continuing to feed the troll?

My only concern is that his canopy choice might result in him hurting some one else under canopy.

Otherwise, rock on dude. Keep up with the experimental EP's, the risky choices, and being a bad ass. Hopefully you will live long enough to pick up the experince you lack, if you don't at least it will make a good lesson for other new jumpers.

Get it on video if you can.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[format 1]

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Application of the term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.

I'm gonna make you learn how to...
... identify and use (or not use) correct toggle in a blink.

What goes around, comes later.

[DougH 270]

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I'm gonna make you learn how to...
... identify and use (or not use) correct toggle in a blink.

No cookie for you. Brian's video already brought the possibility to my attention. Nothing new under the sun my friend.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[format 1]

O.K. then

I've got a video of me inducing a twist on Navigator 280, non-intentionaly, after which I say outloud: "Way to go you jackass"

but the one you'd like, I'll see to it that it ends up here ASAP.

I mean it.

What goes around, comes later.

[denete 3]

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Brian Germain is also a HIGHLY skilled and experienced canopy pilot and skydiver. What do you think he'd tell you if he knew your experience level, WL, and canopy choice?

He was also at an altitude that allowed him time to experiment with a solution.

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[denete 3]

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Brian Germain is also a HIGHLY skilled and experienced canopy pilot and skydiver. What do you think he'd tell you if he knew your experience level, WL, and canopy choice?

He was continenced about it, unlike most of you.

Gakkk!


You mean he was able to keep from shitting himself?!


Or did you mean that he was able to exercise sexual restraint?

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[labrys 0]

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O.K. then

I've got a video of me inducing a twist on Navigator 280, non-intentionaly, after which I say outloud: "Way to go you jackass"

but the one you'd like, I'll see to it that it ends up here ASAP.

When Scott Miller decides to create a sock puppet and fuck with us all, it will sound like this guy.

Owned by Remi #?

[denete 3]

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WTF people. His canopy choice has nothing to do with his post. There is an interesting discussion to be had here and you guys are trying to turn it into the weekly newbie-wingloading post.

Yes, his canopy choice is too much too soon. That doesn't mean his idea is immediately invalid or not worth discussing.

Would WL affect the results (positive or negative) from getting a toggle line-locked by pulling it down during a spin? A spinning canopy that is allowed to continue will eventually line-lock anyhow, wont it?

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[AggieDave 6]

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When Scott Miller decides to create a sock puppet and fuck with us all, it will sound like this guy.

Dear. God. Can I use this line? Please? That line can be used for so many situations, so true on so many levels.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnDeere 0]

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Why are you guys and gals continuing to feed the troll?

My only concern is that his canopy choice might result in him hurting some one else under canopy.

Otherwise, rock on dude. Keep up with the experimental EP's, the risky choices, and being a bad ass. Hopefully you will live long enough to pick up the experince you lack, if you don't at least it will make a good lesson for other new jumpers.

Get it on video if you can.

x2

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[aresye 0]

I think my signature line definitely has some input for you format.

They teach in the FJC that if you have linetwists, to not even think about touching a toggle until the twists are cleared. I had some pretty nasty line twists on my first canopy jump (5+ twists). Luckily for me I did exactly as I was told, and it didn't even take that long to untwist. Most likely if I pulled a toggle, I would have induced my own spin, even if it was the magical, "correct one."

I don't see you holding an instructional rating, and by god I hope you never coach anytime soon. Your experimental EPs are going to get either yourself, or somebody else killed someday. Sure the method may work occasionally, but I predict more people dying than being saved, because a solvable issue just became an unsolvable one.

Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

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...with enough alti, I said to myself "cmmon pussy, you've got a theory? now is the time...

Is that what we should have them put on your head stone? Thats exactly the type of attitude that will get you killed... or someone else below you. I've done stupid shit and made stupid mistakes. Everyone has done stupid shit. but jumping a w/l of 1.6 at your level, well your making a mistake everytime you leave that airplane.

Idk where you jump but at my dropzone I doubt they would even let me jump a 1.6 w/l with my number of jumps. and you know what? I don't want to jump a 1.6 w/l yet. It's just dumb. You don't have the experience yet. Also you have 5 years in the sport and only 123 jumps? you cant be that current and yet have a 1.6 w/l?

wow.


and yes I already know about using toggles to get out of line twists... i wont do it but i know how to.