T_P 0 #1 May 13, 2009 I have a question about canopy size which I would be grateful if someone could answer. I am a student who has completed AFF in the UK and now have 30 jumps. I always weight less than 154 lbs (11 stone) *without* equipment and am generally in good shape - I run, swim, etc, so have good co-ordination and general fitness. Most recently I have been jumping 210 canopies (last 10 jumps) and stand up on almost all landings. I find the canopy (not sure which make) fairly comfortable to land, but difficult in higher wind conditions because of the slow flight speed - I get blown backwards off the dropzone. I did jump a 170 Sabre II twice (one which belonged to a friend) and stood up both landings (in a fairly strong wind which helped) but found it very very fast at the time (at 20 jumps or so). I have occasionally stumbled on landing, but had no disasters so far (early days!). I would like to buy a rig with a Sabre II canopy. I don't know what size to buy want advice. I have read the following article on dropzone.com which seems to advise very large canopies: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=545 According to this article I should have a canopy about 1.65*(154 +20) = 287 square feet. This sounds BIG!!!! When I get past 200 jumps it recommends a canopy which is 1.2*(154 +20) = 210 square feet (ie what I am jumping now, and which feels fine!!). Obviously I can't challenge the author of this article, who knows far more about skydiving than me, but I note that the article is 10 years old, and that things *may* have changed (??). What I would like is a canopy that I can keep for a long time. I'm not interested in speed or swooping, and do not anticipate I will become interested in this. Nor am I concerned about pack volume. What I would like is a canopy that I can keep for the next 10 years, that will be safe in a range of wind conditions (inc fairly high wind), be fun to fly, but not aggressive or dangerous etc. I plan to do 30/40 jumps a year - ie be current but not fanatical (no jokes please!). I'm happy to do a progression on to a smaller canopy on rented rigs if this is required, but I would rather not do this for more than another 50 jumps because of the expense. The question, finally, is this: If I buy a Sabre II, taking all the above information into account, which size/sizes would you recommend I consider buying. I realize this is a difficult question to answer, and I will, of course, ask for professional instruction regarding downsizing onto it. Please don't recommend using this or that other canopy, I'm aware there is a lot of choice and personal preferences are different, this is purely a question of SIZE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrwrong 0 #2 May 13, 2009 Here is a good source of info... http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw He who dies with the most toys, wins..... dudeist skydiver # 19515 Buy quality and cry once! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #3 May 13, 2009 190I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #4 May 13, 2009 Oh, more explanation? At 30 to 40 jumps a year you will have trouble progressing in your canopy skills. With that in mind I'd suggest staying at 1:1 even with a modern ZP canopy. At 154 your going to be 180 or so out the door. So that gets to a 190. If you were planning on being a real skydiver instead of a part time skydiver you could probably get comfortable with a 170. BTW As you point out the article you quote is from 1999. My guess is that even Nancy would find that somewhat overly conservative now. Use mrwrongs link and the 187 lb column. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #5 May 13, 2009 QuoteI have a question about canopy size which I would be grateful if someone could answer. According to this article I should have a canopy about 1.65*(154 +20) = 287 square feet. This sounds BIG!!!! When I get past 200 jumps it recommends a canopy which is 1.2*(154 +20) = 210 square feet (ie what I am jumping now, and which feels fine!!). i think you got the math a bit backwards there. exit weight / canopy size = wingloading so, at 174 exit weight, at 1:1, you shouldn't jump anything smaller than a 174 (or the next size up, a 190 as previously suggested). at 200 jumps (1.2 rule-of-thumb wingloading), you would be looking at 174/1.2 or something in the 145-150 range. these are not absolutes! a lot depends on skill, fitness, currency, dz location etc..."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_P 0 #6 May 13, 2009 Thanks very much... but I think the article I referred to was quoted in sqf/lb rather than lb/sqf - i.e. those sizes were recommended... but back in 1999. I expect canopy design has moved on since then. The 150 ish size you point to sounds way to small for me, so the real decision is whether to go for a 190 and hope I can keep it a long time before getting bored, or a 170 and do XX jumps before landing it in zero wind! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #7 May 13, 2009 Go for the 190. There is a ton that you can learn on it without worrying quite as much about pranging yourself. It will NOT forgive all mistakes, but it will forgive more than a 170. And if you're worried about the 170, then you won't be exploiting what it can do. Small mistakes are how we learn to do better. Big mistakes are how we learn what not to do. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #8 May 13, 2009 someone just sent me a pm explaining the different way of looking at wingloading. the 150 i mentioned was a 200 jump minimum wingloading, not for now! it would likely be too small, even if you thought it was okay. the fact that you realize that puts you way ahead of a lot of jumpers! a 190 would be a great starter size for you, in theory. i don't know you, so as usual, consult your coaches and/or senior jumpers who know you before making a decision. "Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #9 May 13, 2009 So far I've seen some good advice on the responses. I would concur with 190. If you were making more jumps per year (like 100 or more) then a 170 might be ok. The 190 will be more forgiving of mistakes which will be more likely when making 40 jumps a year. Also the average person gains 1.5 lbs each year, which means you will likely weigh 15 lbs more in ten years. Go with the 190.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #10 May 13, 2009 There is no reason to keep the canopy 10 years. I f you buy a 190 now when/if you are ready to downsize to a 170 it will not be hard to sell the 190You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
