ScottyE 0 #1 May 31, 2009 Beeeyaatchh! jumped my rig yesterday for the first time (Racer) The container says the container pack columes are 500 ci for reserve and 550 for the main. I have a super raven 3 reserve in it and a Pilot 210 The jump shack recommends a 230 sabre according to the canopy chart but this pilot 210 (less than 30 jumps on it) is really tight in the container. My rigger replaced and lengthened the closing loop this helped a little but it is still tight . The main bag is not original to the container its an old Triathlon 220 nylon bag and one of the people watching said that was part of the problem as Racer bags are really wide . Should I go ahead and order another main bag, or should I just deal with it and hope it gets better with more jumps or just get another container ? I attached some photos of the container packed up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #2 May 31, 2009 Measure your bag and ask jump shack how its dimensions compare to what they're supposed to be. Packing technique has a lot to do with how tight the fit is. Assuming you haven't been paying for your jumping habit by working as a packer you don't have enough experience to pack canopies as small as they could be, especially when new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #3 May 31, 2009 Drew I was watching our packer struggle with it and even lent a hand I felt so bad I tipped her $4 extra for each pack job But just for giggles I opened the container and tried it my self. I sent an Email to the Jumpshack so maybe I'll here something tommorow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #4 May 31, 2009 God, racers look ugly "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #5 May 31, 2009 How are you placing the bag in the main tray? Line stows against reserve container, BOC or back pad? According to the owner’s manual you should place the line stows against the BOC (although many people have packed different ways without issues). May I suggest one thing out of this topic? Remove the Velcro from the old ROL deployment system, it is useless and will damage lines, fabric and almost anything that comes in contact with it. Safe skies RonaldoEngineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #6 May 31, 2009 Ronaldo thanks, the line stows are against the BOC bottom of rig. Is removing the hook velcro something I can do or is it best left up to a rigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #7 May 31, 2009 Check if the bag is filling the container (no empty spaces) and that it lays flat on the tray once the bottom and top flaps are closed (when you’re pulling the closing loop). One trick I use is to place the bag slightly tilted up and then I pull the bottom flap until the grommet side of the bag is pressing against the reserve container (see sketch attached). If the rig still looks pregnant give Jump Shack a call. You may do it yourself using a seam ripper and a little patience. Start removing the seams on top of the Velcro strap. Once you have removed a few stitches you can lift the Velcro strap and start cutting the lines between the Velcro and flap (much faster). Once you reach the junction between the side flap and the lateral strap you’ll have to carefully cut the Velcro (because it is usually sewn behind the backpad). If you don’t feel comfortable doing or if you have doubts in the middle of the process take it to a rigger. Blue skies!Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #8 June 1, 2009 Learning to pack tight takes practice. Very probably, more than you've had. new parachutes tight takes even more practice. But if a packer has problems, there may be something to it. Oh, and a 'Triathlon 220 nylon bag' certainly is a weird animal. Bags come with the container. If it's not the correct bag and doesn't fill the container in some dimensions, that may very well be part of the problem though. Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #9 June 1, 2009 Thanks Very Much Ronaldo nice of you to take the time with the sketch appreciate all the info on removing the velcro too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #10 June 1, 2009 I'm really hoping that its the bag ,its really hard for me to fathom that a container sized for a Sabre 230 wont fit a Pilot 210 hell Aerodyne tried to tell me that the 210 would be too small and I needed a Solo 230 Minumum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #11 June 1, 2009 At the very least put pile velcro on the hook. Often it will stay tight enough just sticking in on. Or it can be tacked in place. I service several rigs (some mine) that I just stuck pile on to the old velcro.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #12 June 1, 2009 Racers are tried and true. They have been around for a long damn time. Good rigs. Ugly for U I guess. Opinions Vary... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #13 June 2, 2009 Removed the old velcro today that used to go to the leg pocket with my wifes seam ripper it was pretty easy. Thanks for the tip fellas! As far as packing I guess if I decide to downsize a 188 Pilot will fit great Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #14 June 2, 2009 The picture 111 taken from sideway (with your girlfriend) shows a rig which looks OK for me. You know, any parachute system now is relatively tight. A friend of mine has a small rig (a Micron with an Optimum reserve), he is a rigger and he told me that with that kind of reserve his reserve container is like a piece of concrete. A bit tight is better than a bit loose. Also, the tightness depends on the rigger method. Some are better than other to spread the reserve volume more evenly. One more thing, your rig is new then expect after few weeks-months that the fabric will set up.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #15 June 2, 2009 Been around since they were SST's for struggle, struggle, thump. (really super swooper tandem) It's like Apple computers, a cult. You either love them and the company and the HH or you hate them. I'm a PC guy.BTW I would expect to have issues with a bag from another rig in a lot of Racers. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #16 June 2, 2009 Quote Removed the old velcro today that used to go to the leg pocket with my wifes seam ripper it was pretty easy. Thanks for the tip fellas! Feels good, doesn´t it? Quote As far as packing I guess if I decide to downsize a 188 Pilot will fit great That´s a positive way to see things Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyE 0 #17 June 3, 2009 Councilman mine is an SST made in 1991 but it looks new .my packer even thought it was a new one I had it sent to Jumpshack after I bought it an had all the updates done on it except the riser cover magnets.Had all velcro replaced new BOC pouch ect. Oh and Suzie at the Jumpshack is sending me a new mainbag she's pretty sure thats the problem also as the pilot 210 should fit perfect. Thanks for all the help fellas, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #18 June 3, 2009 >You either love them and the company and the HH or you hate them. I must be strange, then! My first rig was a Racer, but they're not my favorite any more; there are a lot of containers on the market that work better. I like Nancy and John is at least entertaining. I think the Firebolt is a decent canopy, and I'd even recommend Racers to very small women, because they do good custom sizings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #19 June 3, 2009 Bill, Bill, Bill, We ALL know your strange.But my first rig was a crossbow piggyback. My second was a SST prototype. Then I learned better. I like Nancy too and John is certainly entertaining and has been for years. But IMHO the Reflex is what the Racer should have become. John claimed he had a 1 pin Racer in his room at the 93 symposium but only the chose few saw it and it's immeninent introduction is still to come.There are things I like about them, but more I don't. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #20 June 4, 2009 QuoteThe jump shack recommends a 230 sabre according to the canopy chart all rig manufacturers may use those words but what to keep in mind is (especially for racer) that it is more of an "up to a 230". I knew a very experinced jumper (RIP Jo) who ordered a new mirage and intentionally ordered the container one size too big for the main and reserve just so it would not be a brick on his back and would not be a struggle to pack - this is the opposite of what we see most people do. the proper bag will help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy0689 0 #21 June 5, 2009 How much will a new container stretch or break in? I'm having the same issue with a Mirage G4.Andy I'll believe it when I see it on YouTube! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #22 June 6, 2009 friends don't let friends jump racers. don't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 4 #23 June 6, 2009 I always thought it was Friends don't let Friends jump STRONG! I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #24 June 7, 2009 When one is passing through 1500 ft. with nothing out, no one really cares how pretty their gear is.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #25 June 7, 2009 My new Pilot also seemed to pack larger than I expected, the rig was made for it, but was still difficult to close. After 80 jumps I have to shorten the loop, and the canopy kinda walks into the bag all by itself. It really does get smaller. Also, the triathlon is a 7 cell, the pilot is a 9 cell, so should pack larger. Downsizing because you want a smaller rig or a rig that's easier to pack is just plain silly. Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
