Cutaway EP and "grabbing the handles"

[denete 3]

Let's just say that I've been very...reflective, lately regarding EPs. I usually go through them every week or two if I'm not jumping, and every time before going to the drop zone.

Being a...fat guy (
I had been practicing grabbing my handles by putting my palms on my handles, and then curling my fingers under the handle. I'm starting to fear that I'll end up just grabbing a bunch of jumpsuit with my fingers and handle with my palm. Then I'll squeeze under stress and pull on the jumpsuit more than the handle. I am also afraid that if I continue to wear my "tackified" gloves, this will be worse and I wont feel the fabric that the gloves are gripping.

Would baggy sleeves and legs with a fitted torso be enough to give me drag while still allowing me to get a "handle" on my handles? I think I am going to ditch the gloves from February to November. Is there another way to get a grip on your handles without the risk of grabbing a bunch of jumpsuit?

- David

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[popsjumper 2]

Yes.

1. Pull high enough that you comfortably have time.
2. Check altitude.
3. Don't panic.
4. LOOK at your handles before you you take them in your hands.
5. While you're looking at the handles, make sure you have them properly in your hand before you start pulling on them.

oh...and...
6. Buy your rigger a bottle of his choice.
7. Be nice to your instructors.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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4. LOOK at your handles before you you take them in your hands.

That bears repeating.
On my first malfunction, on my 35th jump, I didn't look and ended up in freefall after cutaway, pulling franticly on my main lift web. I damn near went in.

[wmw999 2,473]

While looking, remember that your handles are attached to the front of the main lift web. If you feel for them and they're not where you expected, you probably have enough time to look carefully, once. So do it right.

I'm of the female persuasion, and I like my chest strap under the girls, so my handles aren't easy to see. But with a spinner they're pulled away from my body, and I had no problems at all seeing them.

If you open high sometime, you can even try spinning and seeing where your handles end up. But, again -- your handles are on your main lift web, the bottom on which starts at the legs. The top might be somewhere weird because of a malfunction; visually it's easier to find from the bottom, by feel it's easier from the top.

You have plenty of time to do it right the first time. Don't waste time with blind tries; think about what you're doing when things aren't dire, and prepare.

And yes, I do use an RSL.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[countzero 7]

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Let's just say that I've been very...reflective, lately regarding EPs. I usually go through them every week or two if I'm not jumping, and every time before going to the drop zone.

IMO you can never get enough practice when it comes to EPs. that's why you'll see me and many of my fellow jumpers practicing walking to the plane and on the ride up. i was taught to LOOK where i'm grabbing, doing so has saved my ass twice.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[JohnMitchell 16]

When suiting up, pull the wings of your suit out from under your armpit, leaving the fabric tight across your chest. This will make it easier to grab your handles. Do you have a D-ring reserve or soft handle. If it's a D-ring, always grab it by hooking your thumb through it, pulling it away from the body, then making a fist. By punching it with your palm behind it instead of just pulling it with your 4 fingers, you'll have a much stronger pull. I've pulled more than a couple of stiff ripcords. Technique makes a difference.

John

[docjohn 0]

Don't wait for your next malfunction to find out. On your next jump, reach down and grab your handles as soon as you feel opening shock. I try to do this on the first jump of the day (unless there are many canopies in the sky in which case my hands go directly to my rear risers in case I need to turn to avoid a collision).

The handles will be higher up than on the ground. Don't wait for you next mal to try grabbing your handles, do it now!

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[popsjumper 2]

Why do you people insist on telling everyone to "grab handles" without saying LOOK at them first?
Huh? Tell me WHY! Do try not to embarrass yourself with your answer.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JustChuteMeNow 0]

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Why do you people insist on telling everyone to "grab handles" without saying LOOK at them first?
Huh? Tell me WHY! Do try not to embarrass yourself with your answer.

At the risk of being embarrassed, there are times when a person CAN'T see their handles and if you believe that a person will always be able to see their handles then you and I have had different experiences in this sport.

Of course I absolutely agree that the best procedure is to look first but there will be times when a person could spend the rest of their life looking.

Please tell me WHY a person should not use touch if sight doesn't give the desired result. Tell me WHY! Do try not to embarrass yourself with your answer.

I'm not really trying to be combative here but your post really came off as confrontational. I hope that by using your own words that you might recognize how they might be construed as stirring the pot a little bit. Of course maybe that was the intent and if so carry on.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that.

[rwieder 0]

I'm not instructing anyone to do as i do. But i DO NOT spend time looking for my handles, (It's my rig(s) i know where they ara ALL the time) and i don't throw the damn handles away either. I do how ever still do 2 or 3 PHT in freefall, becuase your handles are on you main lift web, not on your jump suit, so they're not going to on your jump suit. they're going to be riding a little higher. Sometimes when your under canopy SSS., Enjoying the view, look and see where your shoulder straps, chest strap, RSL (If you have one) Look and see where these handles are, and where they're at with your body weight on the main lift web. Check it out, you'll see what i mean.

How ever, if you think this will make you uncomfortable, don't do it. Just because it worked for me, doesn't mean it will work for you. I have a suit that would fit you with swoop cords which would allow you much more control over your fall rate Also, entertain the idea of doing some intentional cut-aways, they are a great learning tool for students. (I have a cut-away rig, and i do lease it out, pm me if you feel you can make use of it.)

Good Luck! Take caer, Be Safe.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[popsjumper 2]

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Of course I absolutely agree that the best procedure is to look first but there will be times when a person could spend the rest of their life looking."

Unfortunately, instead of what I wrote, you read, "Don't do anything unless you can see the handles."

Glad you agree that looking first is a good idea.

Too bad we still have those like the poster following you who refuse to listen and learn. Spends time feeling for them but not making the effort to look for them.


Yes, indeed, my post was intentionally confrontational. The kinder, gentler approach doesn't always get through and one sometimes had to resort to more forceful techniques.


edited to add:
Yes...women have their own particular problems...that doesn't mean that even THEY should not look first. They may want to look into "The Amazon Mod".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rwieder 0]

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Too bad we still have those like the poster following you who refuse to listen and learn.

You obviousily didn't read my whole post, i prempted it by saying just because i do it this way don't mean for you to do it this way. As i said, i own 4 rigs, i know them like i know the back of my hand, i know their tendencies. I've never had a problem finding my handles, and i never have (And Wont) throw my fucking handles away.

If you want to instruct others (Student & Low Timers Aside) to spend valuable time dicking around looking for their handles, that's cool with me, i ain't doing it.

Quote

"Don't do anything unless you can see the handles."

This is a joke right? So basically what your saying is don't do anything until you see the handles? What if you can't find them until 400-500 AGL, with no AAD? I kmow, don't do nothing until you see your handles. Biggest bunch of crap i've ever heard.

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Spends time feeling for them but not making the effort

They've never not been there. I didn;t say i spend time looking for them, what i did say how ever, is that i stil do at least 2-3 PHT's on every dive.

I've forgotten my altimeter before, guess i should have rode the plane down, but i paid for that jump, and i made it. I also forgot to turn on my AAD, i know, i should have truned it on in the plane!

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[freeflyit 0]

>>I've forgotten my altimeter before, guess i should have rode the plane down, but i paid for that jump, and i made it. I also forgot to turn on my AAD, i know, i should have truned it on in the plane!
Dude, you're just making yourself look bad, especially when you're trying to argue with the guy you're argueing with. Plus, you read his post incorrectly about the "Don't do anything unless you can see the handles."

Not hatin', just pointing.

[denete 3]

Quote

Quote

"Don't do anything unless you can see the handles."

This is a joke right? So basically what your saying is don't do anything until you see the handles? What if you can't find them until 400-500 AGL, with no AAD? I kmow, don't do nothing until you see your handles. Biggest bunch of crap i've ever heard.

You need to go back and re-read the post that you're replying to. It looks like you guys actually agree here.

- David

(my FJC method below...)

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[Andy9o8 2]

OK, how about look and feel for your handles at the same time, neither to the exclusion or delay of the other? Use whatever fucking senses you've got, find the goddam handles fast, and use 'em! (preferably in the right order).

Jesus Christ, people. Can't we all just....get along?

[squarecanopy 0]

The first two steps, and the mantra that I say every time I practice EP's is

LOOK

REACH

Taught to me by my first instructor, who had not had a cutaway in his 1500 jumps. I asked him, in my ignorance, "if you have never had a cutaway, how come you practice your EP's every jump day?" The answer, of course, was " BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER HAD a cutaway, I have no real life experience at it. So I practice ALOT."

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[popsjumper 2]

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..." BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER HAD a cutaway, I have no real life experience at it. So I practice ALOT."

Ooooo...I LIKE that!
He's a good one!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Hmmmm...I don't know why it took this thread to smack me in the face with it but I'm going to change my teaching from "grab" to "reach".

Grabbing seems like a panic maneuver as opposed to a more calm reaching. Any input from you experienced guys?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Hmmmm...I don't know why it took this thread to smack me in the face with it but I'm going to change my teaching from "grab" to "reach".

Grabbing seems like a panic maneuver as opposed to a more calm reaching. Any input from you experienced guys?

(Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor, but I do some informal coaching, and non-skydiving teaching)

Sure. Keep it simple, crystal-clear, and un-ambiguous.

Beyond that - Within a certain range of "standardization", however (since you may not be their only instructor as students), the specific choice of words should simply flow comfortably from your own natural style of speaking. Style of speech is like handwriting - each person's is somewhat unique, but still gets the message across. If your students "get" the point your brain is trying to convey, you've done it right.

[hackish 8]

Both of the handles are fairly easy to distinguish from the main lift web. The new UPT cutaway handles are even fatter. Try spending some time groping your own handles while not looking so if you have to do it you're familiar with the feel.

I think that the time spent calmly doing the look, grab, peel, pull is better than madly grabbing at anything and everything trying to get the cutaway off, but who knows I'm not an instructor.

-Michael

[popsjumper 2]

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...I think that the time spent calmly doing the look, grab, peel, pull is better than madly grabbing at anything and everything trying to get the cutaway off, but who knows I'm not an instructor.

Maybe not, but you are showing some logic and common sense...and that's what counts.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[denete 3]

Quote

Quote

Hmmmm...I don't know why it took this thread to smack me in the face with it but I'm going to change my teaching from "grab" to "reach".

Grabbing seems like a panic maneuver as opposed to a more calm reaching. Any input from you experienced guys?

(Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor, but I do some informal coaching, and non-skydiving teaching)

Sure. Keep it simple, crystal-clear, and un-ambiguous.

Beyond that - Within a certain range of "standardization", however (since you may not be their only instructor as students), the specific choice of words should simply flow comfortably from your own natural style of speaking. Style of speech is like handwriting - each person's is somewhat unique, but still gets the message across. If your students "get" the point your brain is trying to convey, you've done it right.

(Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor, I'm not experienced, but I do some thinking, and non-skydiving teaching)

I want to grab instead of reach. Reaching is part of my "look" action (I don't look and then wait until I see the handle before reaching). I look and reach at the same time, then I grab. If I think "look - reach - look...", then I've shifted to looking for my reserve handle before I've completed a grip on my cutaway handle. Grabbing can only be described as a panic maneuver after the fact. Maybe "grip" or "grasp" would be a more proper term. You can say it in French for all I care, but either way, get that sucker in your hand.

(Disclaimer: I'm not an instructor, I'm not experienced, but I do some thinking, and non-skydiving teaching)

- David

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...Maybe "grip" or "grasp" would be a more proper concise term...

Hmmm....you do have a point.
I'm thinking.....

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[phoenixlpr 0]

[replyI think that the time spent calmly doing the look, grab, peel, pull is better than madly grabbing at anything and everything trying to get the cutaway off, but who knows I'm not an instructor.

[tbrown 26]

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Both of the handles are fairly easy to distinguish from the main lift web. The new UPT cutaway handles are even fatter. Try spending some time groping your own handles while not looking so if you have to do it you're familiar with the feel

I don't have a UPT rig, but the new cutaway handle on my Javelin is a fatter pillow handle, with an extra chunk of hard aluminum tubing inside the pillow. It makes for a nice chunky grip and is now the recommended handle from Sun Path. My reserve handle is a steel D ring, which I slip my thumb into, grip with a fist, pull out of pocket and punch. Got to use my handles last summer. Not with a high speed mal, but with a seriously damaged blown out canopy.

I'm "old school" and do a one handed cutaway. I'd tried to teach myself the two handed chop, but when push came to shove I found I still do it the old fashioned way. The actual way I did it was to grab and peel my pillow, looked and found my silver, punched the pillow, then slid the thumb, gripped silver, pulled it out and punched. That's in slow motion, thinking about it. In real time I was fast enough to be at about mid punch on silver when I hit line stretch due to my RSL.

The funny thing that occurs to me is that NOBODY pulls ripcords anymore until they're in trouble. I'm so old school that I learned how to skydive on a ripcord, including a lot of 3 and 4 pin ripcords, which included a fair number of harder pulls that required an extra hard punch. Nowadays, nobody pulls a ripcord until the shit hits the fan.

If you've never pulled a ripcord in your life, you need to practice !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !