Custom Cypres

[nigel99 561]

I have a question regarding Cypres firing altitude and wanted to get a general opinion view.

For a long time I have been wanting to get back into skydiving as it has never really left my blood. I occassionally play in the tunnel but it is not the same. I always was a conservative jumper (I have ~120 jumps). As I see it the careful selection of equipment by choosing to stay with large canopies, and not taking up any of the higher risk disciplines, will help to reduce the risk (I know that you can do everything 100% right and still die - so this is not an attempt to achieve 0 risk, if I wanted that I would stay in the tunnel).

So I was wondering if there is any "merit" in a non-standard Cypres that is configured for a 1200ft trigger? To put this in perspective, I know that a higher altitude increases the chance of a 2 out - but hopefully not significantly - I have opened at about 1000 foot on a T10 by loosing altitude awareness on a 10 second delay from 5000 foot and doing 22 seconds according to my jump master - and it is not an altitude I want to see in free-fall ever again. It appears that most jumpers open at ~4k which is alot higher than I am used to from 10 years ago, and so it would seem reasonable to shift all the margins upwards. I have never jumped with an AAD so I was not worried about being dependant.

I would appreciate peoples perspectives on this.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[brettski74 0]

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It appears that most jumpers open at ~4k which is alot higher than I am used to from 10 years ago

I've been to dropzones where opening above 3500' is considered a high opening. About the only people I see deploying at 4000' or above are students and novices (ie. pre A licence). 3000' might be more "normal". When I'm doing 4-way, we break off at 4000' and deploy at around 2500-3000'. On a bigway, the first wave break off is probably required to deploy no higher than 2500'. Hard deck for deploying your main for B, C and D licence holders in Canada is 2200'. I believe that it is similar in the USA and other places.

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So I was wondering if there is any "merit" in a non-standard Cypres that is configured for a 1200ft trigger?

If there's a chance that it doesn't need to fire, it should not fire. The AAD only knows what the barometric pressure sensor tells it, and from that it deduces what it thinks your altitude and vertical descent rate are. If you're descending at freefall speeds at 1200', the AAD doesn't know whether this is because you're unconscious, having a brain mal, or fighting to get your left riser to release after a baglock. It's not just a two out that you should be concerned about. I'd be more worried about it firing your last chance at survival into a ball of shit that you haven't had time to clear, yet.

Aside from that, if you really wanted to have a CYPRES fire higher than normal, you could make it happen by setting an offset, but I wouldn't recommend it for the reasons mentioned above.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Hard deck for deploying your main for B, C and D licence holders in Canada is 2200'. I believe that it is the same in the USA and other places.

[Gato 0]

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On a bigway, the first wave break off is probably required to deploy no higher than 2500'.

Wow! No higher than 2500 feet?

T.I.N.S.

[brettski74 0]

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Wow! No higher than 2500 feet?

Yes. It's a safety issue. Opening too high can be just as bad or even worse than opening too low - especially when there are 100 other canopies opening all around you.

[councilman24 37]

The 750 published altitude is for belly flight. Will fire higher (app. 1000' if not in low pressure area). This is meant to save you life if you haven't. NOT to keep you from going low.

This is a compromise between save your butt but not get in the way of people willing to open their CONTAINER at 2000' per USPA minimum recomendations for D license.

Been thought to death. Accept that you can be very low and scared and not have it fire. Not meant to keep you from being scared either. Meant to be an alternative to dead.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[nigel99 561]

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The 750 published altitude is for belly flight. Will fire higher (app. 1000' if not in low pressure area). This is meant to save you life if you haven't. NOT to keep you from going low.

This is a compromise between save your butt but not get in the way of people willing to open their CONTAINER at 2000' per USPA minimum recomendations for D license.

Been thought to death. Accept that you can be very low and scared and not have it fire. Not meant to keep you from being scared either. Meant to be an alternative to dead.

thanks for the various replies and thoughts. I certainly agree that an AAD is not a substitute for your own responsibility.

While I certainly agree 100% that the company will design for the most appropriate solution across the bulk of their user base - I did notice that they offer customised versions - which I assumed to mean an opportunity to "tweak" the parameters. I would imagine that if a person is significantly away from the "norm" then a tweak could make the device potentially better matched to THEM (not as a product in general).

By the way I do understand that as in my original remark about going low - a cypress may well have complicated things as if it had existed back then I COULD have had 2 out (although the thought of a cypres fitted to a bellymount reserve and T-10 rig brings a smile to my face

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Gato 0]

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Wow! No higher than 2500 feet?

Yes. It's a safety issue. Opening too high can be just as bad or even worse than opening too low - especially when there are 100 other canopies opening all around you.

Yes, I understand that. I was just surprised that on a bigway the first wave pulls at 2500 - that implies that some subsequent wave would be opening possibly below 2000'. Is that common? I ask only because even D license holders in the US aren't supposed to open any lower than 2000'.

Remind me never to have a low-pull contest with a Canadian!!

T.I.N.S.

[pilotdave 0]

He said the first wave breakoff is to pull no higher than 2500. That means they're the outer people in the formation that need to track the farthest. People closer to the center would be pulling higher.

Dave

[councilman24 37]

customized aren't user defined. They have speed, student, tandem and expert. All have defined parameters. Beyond that not user definable.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[brettski74 0]

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Yes, I understand that. I was just surprised that on a bigway the first wave pulls at 2500 - that implies that some subsequent wave would be opening possibly below 2000'. Is that common? I ask only because even D license holders in the US aren't supposed to open any lower than 2000'.

No. Subsequent waves pull higher. The first wave has the farthest to go, so they want to maximise the time they have to track, so they leave first and open lowest. Subsequent waves are fewer people and need to make room for even fewer people behind them, so they track less and open higher.

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Remind me never to have a low-pull contest with a Canadian!!

I'm not Canadian. I just live here.

Low pull contest? Let me save us both a jump ticket. You win.

[Gato 0]

Got it.

Sorry for the confusion. Forgot about the tracking part - and that people in the bigway aren't just pulling in place.

I will now slink back into my noob-hole.

T.I.N.S.

[dragon2 2]

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Got it.

Sorry for the confusion. Forgot about the tracking part - and that people in the bigway aren't just pulling in place.

I will now slink back into my noob-hole.

Now that you know about the tracking, you can be amazed at the pulling in place again
Click The "pull-outs" are the signals for every wave, plus of course the various cameramen/-women pull in place too.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[210_zoom 0]

Or you could just buy a VIGIL 2.

[SEREJumper 1]

The military cypres comes in a variety of activation altitudes. A few are 1500 for MC-4/5 (and a few others) and 1000 for experienced/instrucotrs using conventional throw out rigs.

You can always set the offset as well for a higher activation altitude if you want to.

Basically you are telling the cypres that you are jumping over an area that is higher than your take off field elevation (but really not). So setting your cypres for 240 UP ARROW will have your cypres activation altitude at 990 ft (750 normal + 240 = 990). Consult your local rigger and or SSK.

http://www.cypres-usa.com/altadj.htm

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[Arvoitus 1]

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Or you could just buy a VIGIL 2.

Or you could just read your Cypres manual.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[erdnarob 1]

If you chose a Vigil, you can set it up yourself at PRO, STUDENT or TANDEM mode. And the chosen mode stays on the display when the device is switched on.
If you chose the STUDENT configuration on your Vigil it will fire at an altitude of 1040 ft if you are on your belly and at 1300 ft if you are straight up while at the begining of the main opening for instance (due to the differential pressure between chest and back when on your belly). Since this set up is a student configuration your Vigil (and Cypres as well) will fire at a lower speed of 45 MPH. If you chose a Student Cypres the firing will be at 950 ft and at a speed of 45 MPH when being on your belly but this configuration is factory set up only.
I doubt a manufacturer will set up a custom AAD for you. OTOH if you get into the habit of pulling at 3500' or higher, this is your best insurance against possible problems. To do so, get an AAD but also get a good beeper. An AAD set up at PRO (Vigil) or Expert factory set up (Cypres) should be OK for your safety.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[timmyfitz 0]

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If you chose a Student Cypres the firing will be at 950 ft and at a speed of 45 MPH when being on your belly but this configuration is factory set up only.

From the Cypres manual for the Student model

It will activate the EOS when the rate of descent exceeds 29mph (13m/sec). The activation altitude is split. In the case of rate of descent being equal to that of freefall the opening altitude is at approx. 750 feet, being the same as with Expert CYPRES. However, should the rate of descent be lower than that of freefall but still above the limit of 29mph (e.g. with partially opened canopy), then Student CYPRES activates the EOS when the altitude decreases below 1000 feet above ground level.

[erdnarob 1]

Thanks for the corrections. I assumed wrongly that the Cypres student had the firing set up 200 ft higher than the Cypres Expert model. But 29 MPH is quite a low speed and the author of the thread wouldn't certainly like that kind of speed for normal jumping. I had the wrong impression that the speed for the Cypres Student was like the Vigil one ie. 45 MPH. My excuses.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.