The wisdom of Tandem skydiving

[Kbone 0]

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So out of that $225 Aff jump you have already spent $125 to get the JM's to altitude and to pay them.

But I thought AFF level 1's cost $299 at Perris?
They even cost $400 at Eloy!

Thats $275 of pure profit.

[flyangel2 2]

I've been looking for more drama in my life, so I think I'll go open an DZ

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[diablopilot 2]

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2 rigs vs 1 tandem and greater qualification for the staff same seats on the plane.

You have no idea.....

Tandem rig....$8,000 to $12,000
AFF rig....$5,000
AFF Jump Master Rigs......$provided by the JM's
AFF or Tandem rating.....$provided by the JM's
Aircraft $30,000 to 1 million.
Property and buildings.....$getting the idea?
Staff, workers comp, computers, etc......

I would sugest most DZO's ARE in the sport because of the love of it, but they still have to eat and raise families........

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[happythoughts 0]

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an average DZ makes about $20 profit per tandem.

I would guess they make a lot more than that.

Guess

I see a lot of statements posted as fact. These statements are used to make negative comments.

A tandem rig costs $10,000. Amortize that over the life of the rig/canopy and figure out how much they need to charge for each jump.

The tandem jumper has to pay for :
Their slot
The tandem masters slot
The tandem masters pay
The per-jump cost of a tandem rig
Re-pack for the tandem rig.
Some profit too

The dz provides facilities, manifest people, phones, organization and a hundred other things. They are supposed to make a profit.

The tandem masters are paid to do their job.

From now on, the only people who should complain about the cost of tandems are posters who go to their job and receive no pay.

(Waiting to hear from those missionaries in Kenya now...)

[flyangel2 2]

Here are the break downs for cost to do student jumps at Perris Valley.

Here are the break downs for cost to do student jumps at Eloy.

What is wrong with a DZ making a profit? Do other companies like Wal-Mart make a profit? What they make is up to them. That's the beauty of living where we live. If you don't like it, go some place else. Please, go some where else.......please, oh please.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Kbone 0]

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I doubt you've thought out the economics of running a DZ these days.

Perris has just opened a wind tunnel. It is mostly experienced jumpers that support this wind tunnel.

They also have a DC-9 Jet which they will definatly never use for Tandems or AFF.

Obviously there is money coming in from somewhere. If funjumpers never turned any sort of profit, do you think they would have invested all the time and money to get these new toys running?

If you build a proper business model, anything is possible. Just ask the owners at Perris.

[unformed 0]

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As a DZ owner, you should never be concerned with the bottom line. It's not about the money. It is about love for the sport.

That's how I felt when I was eight years old. Actually, up to about 17 or so, that's how I felt. I wanted the ideal life, do things strictly for the love of it and no other reason. I didn't care about money, was very unmaterialistic, etc etc etc.

Then I started paying my own bills.

I would bet the majority of DZ owners are doing it for the love of the sport. I'm sure they can make a lot more money in a -different- business with the same amount of effort and investment.

But whats ideal doesn't exactly mesh with reality. I -wish- I could do the things I love to do, and charge as little as I can to make the costs cheaper for everybody else.

BUT if I've been working all day, trying to run a DZ, and I am unable to jump because I am running said DZ, and after hours, I have to make sure all the equipment is in good condition, the place is cleaned up, my employees are doing their jobs, my finances are in order, etc. At the end of the day, I don't want to come out with just enough money to eat. I worked hard while everybody else was playing, so I expect to get paid well for it.

Doing something for the love of it doesn't mean you have to give everybody else a free ride. Running a business even as a hobby is still a business; a business that doesn't make enough profit won't be a business for long.

This ad space for sale.

[Kbone 0]

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for cost to do student jumps at Eloy.

It's $260 now but I remember a few months back it cost almost $400. They must have gotten a lot of pressure to bring the price back down.

[diablopilot 2]

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Perris has just opened a wind tunnel. It is mostly experienced jumpers that support this wind tunnel.

You think so? Check out the morgage for the place.....

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They also have a DC-9 Jet which they will definatly never use for Tandems or AFF.

And it cost less to pick up than an otter....but heaven forbid there be anything but 182's on your flightline....wouldn't want to see a just travle around the country and participate at boogies now would you....Anyone else?

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Obviously there is money coming in from somewhere. If funjumpers never turned any sort of profit, do you think they would have invested all the time and money to get these new toys running?

And what's wrong with turning a profit? Does that hurt your sensibilities of what a DZ should be? Cool. Go play elsewhere then.....

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If you build a proper business model, anything is possible.

That's ALL?

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Just ask the owners at Perris.

I have, have you?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[flyangel2 2]

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for cost to do student jumps at Eloy.

It's $260 now but I remember a few months back it cost almost $400. They must have gotten a lot of pressure to bring the price back down.

Can you show me where you saw that amount?

If they raise or lower the cost, that's up to them.

What is wrong with a DZ making a profit?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[NightJumper 0]

Okay everyone, only one word .....TROLL!

[skybytch 273]

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Doing something for the love of it doesn't mean you have to give everybody else a free ride.

Have to? Maybe not. Be expected to? Buy into a gear store and see how many of your friends think you should sell them things at or very close to your cost...

[Kbone 0]

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Can you show me where you saw that amount?

It was on their website, the same place you posted your link. They just changed it.

[flyangel2 2]

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Can you show me where you saw that amount?

It was on their website, the same place you posted your link. They just changed it.

Can you prove that?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Kbone 0]

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And what's wrong with turning a profit? Does that hurt your sensibilities of what a DZ should be? Cool. Go play elsewhere then.....

LOL I knew this would happen. All of the hardcore zealots would flip out at any form of constructive criticism towards the skydiving industry.

It seems that many of you are happy with the way things are and that is fine with me but I feel that there is always room for improvement.

We are not in a cult and there really is no need for the sheep mentality.

[diablopilot 2]

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We are not in a cult and there really is no need for the sheep mentality.

I don't have it. I just think you're not aware of the REAL costs involved. I've written the checks for a small DZ and pretty well understand how little money there is being made.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[psychoswooper 2]

I agree but the overhead with most dropzones is pretty low.

They are located in far out rual areas where the land is cheap.

All you really need is a

Manifest booth
a dirt airstrip
a very old plane
a tandem rig or 2
an outhouse

that is about it. Skydivers are not picky about their facilities.

The airplane is the only real expense with fuel costs. How can dropzones not handle these costs?

edited to add: assuming the DZ owner and his girl live at the dropzone, the DZ owner can fly the plane and the girl can run the ticket counter. Damn! It's just that easy!

[flyangel2 2]

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We are not in a cult and there really is no need for the sheep mentality.

So if we are educated in how the real world works, we are sheep? If we don't think the way you think we are sheep?

Like another poster said, go ahead and open a DZ and then come back and educate us.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[D22369 0]

assuming the DZ owner and his girl live at the dropzone, the DZ owner can fly the plane and the girl can run the ticket counter. Damn! It's just that easy!***

dont forget one of them needs to be the chief mechanic also..... and videographer... and maid....

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[happythoughts 0]

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I knew this would happen. All of the hardcore zealots would flip out at any form of constructive criticism towards the skydiving industry.

I haven't seen anything constructive yet. Complaining about pricing is constructive?
You don't seem to know how tandem prices are constructed, but you think they are too high. So far, nothing constructive, just negative troll bs.

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It seems that many of you are happy with the way things are and that is fine with me but I feel that there is always room for improvement.

Then get a rating, do some free tandems and improve it.

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We are not in a cult and there really is no need for the sheep mentality.

Like the Grateful Dead? That type of cult?
There are parts of the music industry that allow free recording of their music.

Start a dz, drop the prices. No one will force you to charge any rate. Do some free tandems yourself.

In fact, you could start a trend now. You want others to work for less. Be a role model, go to your boss and ask for a 50% pay reduction today.

[unformed 0]

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In fact, you could start a trend now. You want others to work for less. Be a role model, go to your boss and ask for a 50% pay reduction today.

Haha! Beautiful.

This ad space for sale.

[skybytch 273]

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It seems that many of you are happy with the way things are and that is fine with me but I feel that there is always room for improvement.

Then get a rating, do some free tandems and improve it.

Why would wou want someone who is vocal about not liking tandems out there doing them?

Stop and breathe, people. There are a lot of jumpers out there who feel, in varying degrees, that tandems have changed the sport - not for the better. In the days B.T. (before tandem), you had to really want to make a skydive to do one - you had to be willing to take responsibility for your own actions and the possible consequences of those actions. I've always had more respect for someone who does their first jump static line or AFF than for someone who does their first jump tandem because they chose to do it themselves instead of having someone there holding their hand through the scary parts.

It was when a tandem passenger told me that she was so glad I was there to "take care of her" that I began to realize how badly tandem skydiving has been marketed. In this crusty old curmudgeon's mind, skydivers take care of themselves.

[lawrocket 3]

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I knew this would happen. All of the hardcore zealots would flip out at any form of constructive criticism towards the skydiving industry.

It seems that many of you are happy with the way things are and that is fine with me but I feel that there is always room for improvement.

Your criticism hasn't seemed to be too constructive. Your points seem to be:

1) Tandems are bad because they alienate the fun jumpers;
2) Tandems are money-making tools of "the man.";
3) DZO's should show appreciation for the fun jumpers;
4) Fun jumpers have earned and deserve cheaper jump tickets;
5) Any DZO who worries about money is a sell-out;
6) If a DZ uses tandems to defray the cost of fun jump tickets, that's bad. The DZ should simply forego tandems and lower the cost of jump tickets.

What we see is not constructive criticism, but griping. Constructive criticism offers proposed solutions that are workable.

Thus, you want to say ask, "how can I provide cheap fun jump tickets without the tandem market and have aircraft and facilities that people want, while being able to pay the bills."

You know what they say, you can make a small fortune skydiving, so long as you start with a large fortune.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Kbone 0]

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Your criticism hasn't seemed to be too constructive. Your points seem to be:

1) Tandems are bad because they alienate the fun jumpers;
2) Tandems are money-making tools of "the man.";
3) DZO's should show appreciation for the fun jumpers;
4) Fun jumpers have earned and deserve cheaper jump tickets;
5) Any DZO who worries about money is a sell-out;
6) If a DZ uses tandems to defray the cost of fun jump tickets, that's bad. The DZ should simply forego tandems and lower the cost of jump tickets.

Wow! you are better at this than I am. You just nailed all my concerns in one paragraph.

All feedback is constructive, weather you chose to accept the suggestions is up to you.

[NightJumper 0]

Let's not forget how Bill and Tedd are clueless about what they did and had no idea as to the impact of tandems. And they didn't even know how to slow the damn things down other than using a "band-aid" drogue. What idiots they must feel like.

Some people should just seek help!