Reflex Rig at End of Life?

[jfields 0]

I have a Fliteline Reflex manufactured in 2000. I am the second owner of the rig. It has had all the safety mods and such done. The Catapult has been removed and all grommets checked out. The container has had relatively little use in the time i've had it. About 300 jumps or so.

A rigger at a local DZ said that he was not going to repack reserves on Reflex rigs after the end of the year. He also mentioned that new riggers and such weren't even learning about them. He advised me to get a new container. I do trust him, but just wanted a double-check from the online folks here.

Concur with his assessment and decision or not?

Thanks!

Justin

[likestojump 3]

I will agree with his decision AFTER FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

I just packed a Reflex a month ago and though it's second rarest thing I pack next to a Racer, I don't feel they are much different than your standard "pin on the front" containers. Just closing is a little different. And it's not like one cannot read a manual :)

So please ask him for where his "end of life" information comes from. Cause if it's for real, I don't want to remain ignorant.

cya

[jverley 1]

Not at all. Sounds like this rigger has made a personal choice, but there is no reason that a Reflex that is airworthy could not be packed and used. I have one myself that I use for a backup.

John
Arizona Hiking Trails

[jfields 0]

He didn't say it was no longer airworthy, as far as the condition of the rig. Nor did he say there were any government directives grounding them. Just that he wasn't going to repack it any more, and there weren't likely to be any riggers in our area (Washington, D.C.) that would. So I don't know that it is a legislated end of life, as much as perhaps a practical one. If I can't get it repacked, it doesn't get me up in the air.

This part of the issue is why I decided to ask the boards. Thanks for asking about the clarification.

Justin

[rlucus 0]

Quote

He didn't say it was no longer airworthy, as far as the condition of the rig. Nor did he say there were any government directives grounding them. Just that he wasn't going to repack it any more, and there weren't likely to be any riggers in our area (Washington, D.C.) that would. So I don't know that it is a legislated end of life, as much as perhaps a practical one. If I can't get it repacked, it doesn't get me up in the air.

This part of the issue is why I decided to ask the boards. Thanks for asking about the clarification.

Justin

That means it's time to get your Rigger's Ticket

[likestojump 3]

Sounds like an extremely subjective and pointless opinion. I bet you will find many riggers in your immediate area willing to pack it.

Fuck narrow minded people. This guy may just have a container he wants to sell you :)

[fcajump 164]

Quote

I have a Fliteline Reflex manufactured in 2000. I am the second owner of the rig. It has had all the safety mods and such done. The Catapult has been removed and all grommets checked out. The container has had relatively little use in the time i've had it. About 300 jumps or so.

A rigger at a local DZ said that he was not going to repack reserves on Reflex rigs after the end of the year. He also mentioned that new riggers and such weren't even learning about them. He advised me to get a new container. I do trust him, but just wanted a double-check from the online folks here.

Concur with his assessment and decision or not?

Thanks!

Justin

While I do believe in taking older systems out of service at some point (long discussion omitted here), I have packed Reflex rigs and do not see them of particular issue. If this specific rig is complete and in good shape, seems like no reason not to use it.

However, I stand by several related comments too:
1. Riggers have the right to not pack any rig for any reason. (Conversly, we are never under obligation to pack/seal any rig.)
2. Riggers have the right to charge extra for any rig (for any reason). Even if it is not harder than other rigs, it you have the only one I will ever see and I don't know the type, it will take me more time to ensure I have the manual and might take a couple pack jobs to be comfortable that I got it right and am willing to seal it.
3. Less common rigs can have increased risks involved due to: rigger being less familiar, other jumpers being less familiar (think gear checks).

On this last point, you should become very familiar with the function of the closing loop on your reserve. If mis-handled you (or an unfamiliar rigger) can bend the pin. Could cost money, could cause a hard/no pull.

The Reflex can be safely maintained/jumped, but being less common it will require you to find a rigger that is comfortable with it and you should be a more knowledgeable jumper (as we all should) about your own gear.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[councilman24 37]

Many riggers chose to NEVER pack a Reflex. It's been my main rig since 1997, and I just bought another never jumped one. If nothing else you can always send it to me to pack.

You may or may not have a rigger in the area that will pack it. If it's air worthy you WILL be able to find a rigger that WILL pack it, but it might be my mail.

I don't pack racers for several reasons. But mostly because I rarely asked to pack on, and haven't since the early 90's. I'm just not current on them and don't want to become current. There are only a couple in the area and the other rigger does them.

BTW I used to pack LOTS of rounds in racers.

If this is the only Reflex that the rigger does it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't want the hassle of figuring it out once or twice a year.

BTW, I'd put the catapult BACK ON.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billvon 3,071]

>He advised me to get a new container. I do trust him, but just wanted
>a double-check from the online folks here.

>Concur with his assessment and decision or not?

I have a Reflex as my second rig, and there are about a dozen of them out here, most in good shape. No reason to not jump them if they are airworthy.

If riggers out there won't pack them, you can always sell it out here, where there are plenty of riggers who have no problems packing them.

[gweeks 1]

Hey Justin,

I am a rigger in the DC area (Severna Park) who will repack a Reflex. I just repacked one about half a year ago which was used in a real cut away, and it actually still worked! Keith, Joe and Ed at Skydive Delmarva probably would pack it too.

[pilotdave 0]

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Concur with his assessment and decision or not?

Absolutely not. It's his choice if he won't pack a reflex, and it's your choice if you want to change riggers or get rid of the rig. But there's no particular reason why you shouldn't jump it. I still use a reflex as my backup rig. I've had 1 rigger refuse to pack it, but that was right after fliteline went out of business and support wasn't clear. No problems since... except one rigger that forced me to remove the catapult or else she wouldn't pack it.

Dave

[Gato 0]

Your rigger probably doesn't like the idea of having to build the Reflex's very specific reserve closing loops - and/or he may not be aware that brand new replacement parts for the Reflex are being made available again by I-can't-remember-who. Some company.

Sounds very much to me like he only wants to pack what he wants to pack. If I had a choice, sure, I'd only do repacks on Vectors, because I like the way they pack up, but that's not gonna happen.

Find another open-minded rigger.

T.I.N.S.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

A rigger at a local DZ said that he was not going to repack reserves on Reflex rigs after the end of the year. He also mentioned that new riggers and such weren't even learning about them.

The manual is available online

http://www.tridenthc.com/manual.pdf


and gives enough information for an inexperienced rigger to pack it.

Closing loop construction is detailed here:
http://www.tridenthc.com/closingloop.htm
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=97972;


A few tips on bulk distribution and making a good pilot chute crater will produce a good looking pack job on the second try. A search on dz.com will turn up such tips with some from riggermick who designed the Reflex.

I own two Reflexes. My first reserve pack job was on one; and while better than some of what I'd seen my cypres bulge was bigger than I like. It opened nice and on heading anyways. Second reserve pack job was on one too and it looked good.

Special tools needed are a 40" piece of spectra, T bodkin ($13 from Paragear), and soft bodkin (just a piece of spectra with a finger trapped loop in one end) if you have an AAD.

Hemostats make it easier to get the free end of the closing loop under the cap; I think I paid $6 for my big set, but small needle nose pliers work in a pinch.

Quote

He advised me to get a new container. I do trust him, but just wanted a double-check from the online folks here.

Concur with his assessment and decision or not?

He's an idiot and/or has an agenda.

Some riggers don't like that the closing loop tension can be adjusted with the rig closed and sealed. Avoiding the hypothetical liability problems which go with that is an acceptable reason to not pack Reflexes, but not to declare them at their end of life.

[skybytch 273]

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and/or he may not be aware that brand new replacement parts for the Reflex are being made available again by I-can't-remember-who. Some company.

That'd be Bomber Manufacturing. They own the TSO, so technically they aren't just "some company", they are the manufacturer. And they didn't just recently make them available; they've been making Reflex replacement parts for at least the past five years (longer, I'm sure, but I've only been sleeping with the guy who builds them for the past five years).

[chutingstar 1]

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He also mentioned that new riggers and such weren't even learning about them. He advised me to get a new container.

We use a Reflex as part of our rigging school. The new riggers here are inspecting and packing them. They are also learning about the service bulletins for them as well as making the reserve loops. They were popular in Atlanta for a couple of years, so we do see them fairly frequently. I have one in the loft this week.

Mike

ChutingStar.com