Deuce 1 #26 November 21, 2004 You got nothing to lose going with the baptism. I'll never forget my first summer camp with the USMC. The Sergeant Instructor asks "How many y'all Catholics? How many y'all Protestants? How many y'all didn't raise your hand? Y'all Protestants now." Plus, some older folks think that children that are not baptised and die are condemned to purgatory (I think that's bullshit, but faith is weird like that) so, since the kid is just getting his head wet, I'd go ahead, if it's not a big deal with your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #27 November 21, 2004 Politely tell Granny that it's you and your spouse's decision, and that you'll take her opinion under advisement. If she starts bitching, let her, & ignore it. It's not her kid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gaskydiver 0 #28 November 21, 2004 I agree with InflightSupv to a certain degree. Scriptural baptism is a public identification with Jesus Christ after trusting Him as Lord and Saviour and being Born Again. It is a conscious decision made after the new birth and is a total submersion, not a sprinkling. Therefore a child cannot be baptised until he or she has become a Christian. Doing anything else to an infant is only for the sake of the parents or grandparents and has no spiritual or eternal value at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #29 November 21, 2004 JP, I'm with you on this. Gee, how much longer is Grandma going to be around? Why cause problems. Being part of a family is give and take. Why is it so bad to make Grandma happy? QuotePlus, some older folks think that children that are not baptised and die are condemned to purgatory (I think that's bullshit, but faith is weird like that) BTW, I think they, the Catholic church, did away with purgatory. Ya know, it must be nice to be a church that can just POOF, make some thing disappear like that Yes, I can say that, I was raised in a Catholic house, went to Catholic school for 12 years, and my mom and dad both work at a Catholic church. Heck, their house looks like the church Thank god they work at the church, cause that's the only way I'm getting pass Saint Paul. My parents will be standing at the Pearly Gates begging Paul to let me in.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #30 November 21, 2004 Quote...My parents will be standing at the Pearly Gates begging Paul to let me in. I thought St. Peter was the Doorman to the big nightclub in the sky....[/ex-catholic] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #31 November 21, 2004 QuoteBTW, I think they, the Catholic church, did away with purgatory. Sorry to break it to you Mar, but they haven't. We still have heaven, purgatory and hell. As for unbaptized babies it is believed that they go to 'Limbo' which is considered a perfect state of happiness. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #32 November 22, 2004 Then who goes to purgatory? I thought that's where the limbo came in. I guess you can tell I'm not a practicing Catholic.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Girlfalldown 0 #33 November 22, 2004 Quote Plus, some older folks think that children that are not baptised and die are condemned to purgatory. OK I'm venturing into a thread I'd never normally visit but this line made me wonder...What about adults that weren't baptized... -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #34 November 23, 2004 I remember getting Baptized as a little girl... It was the day I learned that wearing wet pantyhose feels kinda gross. Oh, and sorry but I have no advice for dealing with the Baptism pressure... Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #35 November 23, 2004 QuoteThen who goes to purgatory? I thought that's where the limbo came in. This is a Catholic teaching, so noone get offended. The belief is that a soul that is not in mortal sin, but not perfected goes to purgatory. That soul also must be baptized. It is believed that the souls in purgatory once purified assume into heaven. Limbo is a state of perfect happiness for babies who were never baptized but are not yet at the age of reason. In other words, the only sin they bear is original sin. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #36 November 24, 2004 QuoteThe belief is that a soul that is not in mortal sin, but not perfected goes to purgatory. That soul also must be baptized. It is believed that the souls in purgatory once purified assume into heaven. Limbo is a state of perfect happiness for babies who were never baptized but are not yet at the age of reason. In other words, the only sin they bear is original sin. This is something I’ve never really understood. I don’t mean this as an attack but am genuinely curious. I understand that the Catholic Church teaches this and that they’ll cite The Church Fathers, the Apocrypha, and various biblical references to fire and purification in order to support the idea. However, there are problems which I see and believe go against basic Christian doctrine. Problems with the idea of Purgatory: 1. It is not explicitly found in the Bible. 2. It implies that the righteousness of Christ does not cleanse from all sin. 3. It implies that justification is not by faith alone. 4. It implies that there is something we must do in order to be cleansed of sin. What do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #37 November 24, 2004 Please take religious discussions to the Speaker's Corner. This thread was created more for in-law advice.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #38 November 24, 2004 QuotePlease take religious discussions to the Speaker's Corner. This thread was created more for in-law advice. Did I start the religious discussion? Like I said, I was just curious. Others so far have asked religious questions. How's mine different? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #39 November 24, 2004 The way to gently take it up with grandma depends on her financial standing and on the future allocation of her assets. In other words: How much is the old hag going to leave you? When will she die? Her negotiating position increases with: a) wealth b) age If she is old and rich and will leave you all - baptize immediately and preferably in several denominations at once! If she is old and has nothing - dude, forget it, don't talk to her or else you might be stiffed with funeral costs on top of everything else If she is rich but in good health and not advanced in years...well what can I say: the power of a small subsidy, an annuity of sorts to show her love...that speaks for itself.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #40 November 24, 2004 QuoteHow's mine different? Yours was the last one. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #41 November 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteHow's mine different? Yours was the last one. Ok. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raefordite 0 #42 November 25, 2004 This is a little long, but may help. QuoteFirst of all, we should pay attention to the "doctrines of baptisms" as written in Hebrews 6:2. According to the Bible, there are three different baptisms; the baptism of John the Baptist for repentance, the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist, and our baptism. The baptism that we receive is a confession of our faith in believing the baptism of Jesus. That is to say, we are baptized in order to confess that we believe Jesus was baptized to take away all our sins and also died on the Cross to atone them. Now you can understand Matthew 3:15 where it says, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." "Thus" here means that Jesus Himself bore all the sins of the world by being baptized by John the Baptist, the representative of all mankind. It was a profound plan of God to save us from the inevitable trap of sin. Jehovah laid on Him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53:6) and has granted us His righteousness. "Righteousness" here means "dikaiosune" in Greek, which also signifies "fairness and justice." It tells us that Jesus bore the iniquity of all mankind in the most fair and just way by being baptized in the way of the laying on of hands. We've been saved by our strong faith in the baptism, the death on the Cross, and the resurrection of Jesus. The spiritual circumcision (Romans 2:29), which cut off all our sins from our heart, has washed away the sins in our heart. Therefore, the apostle Peter said to people, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38) on the Day of the Pentecost. All sinners should obtain the forgiveness of sins in their hearts by believing in the name of Jesus. What's the meaning of His name? "He will save His people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21). The name Jesus means the Savior who saves His people from their sins. How did He save us from all our sins? Jesus has saved us from all our sins through His baptism and the death on the Cross. When the apostles of Jesus Christ preached the gospel, they ensured a clear understanding of the baptism of Jesus and the Cross was taught, then baptized those who believed in them. Accordingly, we're baptized to confess outwardly that we believe in the baptism and the death of Jesus deep in our minds. When we're baptized, we confess "Thank you, Lord. You bore all my sins by baptism and died for me and rose again to save me. I believe it." We are baptized by ministers in water as a symbol of our faith in Jesus' baptism and His death on the Cross, just like the way He was baptized by John Baptist. Thus, the saints in the early church were baptized as a proof for their belief, after they gave heed to the gospel and had redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Baptismal ceremony is not necessarily mandatory, and our water baptism has nothing to do with salvation while it is very important. We could only be saved through believing the gospel of the water and the blood. The Bible tells that we're baptized into Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27). Then, how could we be baptized into Him? It is possible only when we believe in His baptism since the flesh, old man, could be united with Jesus and crucified with Him by His baptism. Consequently, for Jesus bore all our sins by His baptism, His death was the judgment for our iniquities. Therefore, we also died on the Cross with Him and our flesh, the one that sins, died to sin and we have been saved from all our iniquities. Want to know more about being born again of water and the Spirit? Please click the banner below to get your free book on the being born again of water and the Spirit. Those who are united with Jesus through His baptism and death can also be united with His Resurrection. His Resurrection is not only our resurrection from the death to sin, but also the one that lets us be born again as a child of God, impersonated pure and sinless in front of God. If we hadn't laid on Him our sins by distrusting His baptism, the Death and Resurrection might have been meaningless, having nothing to do with our salvation. Those who have laid all his/her sins on Him with faith should be unified with His Death on the Cross, and the baptism followed by the being bestowed with salvation and reborn as a righteous person. However, those who haven't laid his/her sins on Him by believing in His baptism have no relationship with His Death and Resurrection whatsoever. The baptism of the believers is trust worthy just as we find a husband and wife a legal couple through a wedding ceremony. The baptism of the saints is an outward proclamation of such inward belief. When we proclaim our belief in His baptism and the Cross in front of God, saints, and the world our belief becomes more immutable. Having misunderstood the true meaning of the baptism that Jesus has received by John Baptist, we should not believe that we could be saved even though we do not believe in His baptism and its significance. It's simply a cunning trick of the devil. We receive remission of sins and then are welcomed to heaven by truly believing in the baptism of Jesus by heart instead of believing in our own baptism. http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/faq_23.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #43 November 25, 2004 QuoteYou got nothing to lose going with the baptism. I'll never forget my first summer camp with the USMC. The Sergeant Instructor asks "How many y'all Catholics? How many y'all Protestants? How many y'all didn't raise your hand? Y'all Protestants now." Plus, some older folks think that children that are not baptised and die are condemned to purgatory (I think that's bullshit, but faith is weird like that) so, since the kid is just getting his head wet, I'd go ahead, if it's not a big deal with your wife. I agree with Duece and I am a minister (protestant style) Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #44 November 25, 2004 the real meaning of any ritual is diminished when it is simply lip service to appease another.....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
