eric.fradet 17 #1 July 18, 2008 in the Tandem Vector 2 Tandem manual (page 88), in case the tandem master pulls both first handle then the secondary drog release handle wand still the main does not release , the tandem master MUST pull the reserve ripcord. Question : do you have any idea why they do not ask the tandem master to cutaway first ? what is the inconvenient to cutaway ? I see only advantages => very often this malfunction is due to the double-ended loop so on the reserve opening chock, the main finally open, and since it is not free to leave ..it becomes an issue. What do you think ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #2 July 18, 2008 Quotein the Tandem Vector 2 Tandem manual (page 88), in case the tandem master pulls both first handle then the secondary drog release handle wand still the main does not release , the tandem master MUST pull the reserve ripcord. Question : do you have any idea why they do not ask the tandem master to cutaway first ? what is the inconvenient to cutaway ? When I did my TM-course, I was told that: If you cut away and the main stays in the container, it is possible (worn-out velcro on the mainrisercovers) that the main risers can dangle around above the reservecontainer. They can catch your reserve. I am not sure about the rsl and collinslanyard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #3 July 18, 2008 thanks for this reply, I have been thinking about this could be the reason, then I gave up because I could not imagine the risers rings going through the big ring , except if risers are loose enough and the risers cover weak..but I guess it is the reason.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinhi79 0 #4 July 18, 2008 Quote in the Tandem Vector 2 Tandem manual (page 88), in case the tandem master pulls both first handle then the secondary drog release handle wand still the main does not release , the tandem master MUST pull the reserve ripcord. Question : do you have any idea why they do not ask the tandem master to cutaway first ? what is the inconvenient to cutaway ? I see only advantages => very often this malfunction is due to the double-ended loop so on the reserve opening chock, the main finally open, and since it is not free to leave ..it becomes an issue. What do you think ? HOLY CRAP!!!! Do you really have 25000+ jumps???? That is amazing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #5 July 18, 2008 I have to add that in France we teach a different solution, in this situation , the tandem master has to pull the reserve without cutting away.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 11 #6 July 18, 2008 I'd wait for my Vigil to fire!!2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everymansaved 0 #7 July 19, 2008 That's interesting to note. I'm about to take my Strong TI rating, and they most definetly tell you to cutaway before you deploy the reserve...God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #8 July 19, 2008 Quote I'd wait for my Vigil to fire!! Nice advise. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris74 0 #9 July 19, 2008 You are my Hero ! Blue skies Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton2 0 #10 July 19, 2008 QuoteI have to add that in France we teach a different solution, in this situation , the tandem master has to pull the reserve without cutting away.. They told me always cutaway after you pulled the releasesUsing your droque to gain stability is a bad habid. . . Also in case you jump a sport rig!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #11 July 19, 2008 sorry I made a mistake, I meant in France we teach a different solution, in this situation the tandem master has to cut away before pulling the reserve ripcord..which is not the same than the Vector sorry for the confusion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #12 July 19, 2008 I do not know what the sigma manual says, but with better risercovers, I would also cut away first. But with the not so good risercovers of the vector 2, I would go straight for the reserve and resolve the other problem (main coming out) afterwards. The older atom tandemrigs had already the tuck away risercovers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #13 July 20, 2008 I am not a TI but have spent some time looking into this because of a stuck drogue that occurred at our DZ. The reserve deployed and the main stayed bagged in the container. I suspect if the drogue did finally release under the reserve it would place enough drag to cause a clean main deployment behind a flying reserve as it cannot collapse until the drogue is released. If the reserve is in the process of deploying (still a significant downward component to the jumpers' speed) you probably don't want a bag coming out and whipping some lines around as the 3-rings release. If they happened to encircle some reserve lines it could turn out a great deal worse than a 2 out situation. I'm obviously thinking out loud here but that's my opinion. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 July 20, 2008 QuoteI suspect if the drogue did finally release under the reserve it would place enough drag to cause a clean main deployment behind a flying reserve as it cannot collapse until the drogue is released. The drogue collapse when it is released, prior to extracting the bag from the container, if it does not, the opening are brutal, and damage to the canopy is likely. A collapsed drogue produces drag approximate to that of a standard pilot chute.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #15 July 20, 2008 About the sigma : this situation should never happen since you do not deal with a 3 rings release system and in peculiar his double end loop, so I do not think the sigma manual speak about it. the older atom tandem rigs had already tuck away risercovers, but the french method is made for all kind of tandems, not for one manufacturer product. my guess is if the Tandem Vector 2 manual is the only one to speak about it, it is probably because the entranglment of the disconneceted main risers with the reserve deployment did happen in the first tandem days.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #16 July 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteI suspect if the drogue did finally release under the reserve it would place enough drag to cause a clean main deployment behind a flying reserve as it cannot collapse until the drogue is released. The drogue collapse when it is released, prior to extracting the bag from the container, if it does not, the opening are brutal, and damage to the canopy is likely. A collapsed drogue produces drag approximate to that of a standard pilot chute. Makes sense- never thought about that. I wonder if this would be consistant with the small amount of forward speed associated with being under an open reserve. I suppose it would require a few pounds of force to pull the main pin and up to 12lbs of undo each linestow - ignoring any "tugging". -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #17 July 22, 2008 Oh horror of horrors! Strong drogues do not collapse until after the d-bag opens. Does this mean that Strong has been doing it all wrong for twenty-five years? A few years back, I remember a Service Bulletin about modifying Vector drogues so that they only half-collapsed after they disconnect from the harness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #18 July 22, 2008 When I took my Vector cross-training I was told it was because the drogue has collapsed. By the time you make the decision you have a problem you are well on the way to tandem terminal (or collapsed drogue terminal); you are in a hurry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
