two out twice in a row

[martymar1290 0]

im a relatively new skydiver and on my last two jumps i had two canopies out. same situation and the dz is quite confused with the situation and think im crazy. anyway heres what went on....

on the first one i did a coach jump with a great aff instructor and the jump went as planned awesome jump. i turned and tracked away deployed at 4000ft looked up square canopy then looked down to see another pilot chute and line below my feet and watch as it slowly inflates with a few line twists. the canopies start to seperate which then starts to down plane. i assess the situation and cut away as the main was dragging away from me. kicked the line twists out of the reserve and landed safely. after the rigger and everyone assess the incident. they came down to the conclusion that i caught the rsl and popped the pin. no aad fire. was checked three time before i left the plane.
now today i jumped with a friend and the dive went well untill deployment. same thing happens. now mind you im not the kind of person that makes mistakes twice. again checked on the ground by myself and by my friend.the only difference this time is when i went to cut away i had to pull very very hard on the cut away handle. im not a small person either 6ft 2'' 225lbs. little chubby but besides that im pretty strong. i also made sure not to grab for my risers right away because of what happend last time figureing that i could have grabbed the rsl. now im out of some money and i want answers. the dz owner think im crazy because i jumped a different rig this time and this happend again. his quote is that maybe you thought you saw somthing that you didnt...... yeah fucking right like i fucking imagined two canopies over my head. i the reserve handle was in its spot tucked away like its supposed to.....again some kind of answer would be nice. please help me understand. both javelin rigs

[GaryRay 0]

did you use the force maybe? or possibly when you deploy your main the bag comes up and knocks the reserve pin out, fuck if i know, this question is for someone with 5k reserve pack jobs :). good luck though, maybe go again and have them video it.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[michalm21 2]

you should go again and if it happens the 3rd time in a row, you should quit...

[Jeffrey 1]

What type of reserve ripcord do you have and how much excess cable extends past the hole in the handle to the ball?

You should have about 3” of free slack in the cable.

Jeff

[tuffyjensen 0]

We need to see pictures of it packed up and while it is on and you being lifted up by the main risers to see how it fits when you are in the saddle.

Be Safe and Have Fun, in that order!
Tuffy

[azureriders 0]

Quote

You should have about 3” of free slack in the cable.

This is also the only thing I could think of as well. The reserve cable should have enough slack to allow you to arch very hard with out popping the reserve pin. You are a tall guy and if you are in the habbit of "ARCH, Reach, Pull, ARCH" or something similiar, it is possible that your arch is actually pulling the reserve pin. If this is the case, you should be able to recreate the situation on the ground. Put the rig on, sinch all the legs straps down tight, and arch as hard as you can, see if the reserve fires.

If not, well then I have now idea.

[councilman24 37]

Pre skyhook Javelins or post skyhook Javelins. Not familiar with Post skyhook javelins but a couple of ideas about pre skyhook javelins.

Is the RSL velcro still completly mated? Unless the velcro is pulled loss of the reserve riser it couldn't have pulled the pin.

My guess is that at your size your stretching the reserve ripcord housing enough that the it's taking up the slack in the reserve ripcord and pulling the pin. I've seen this before. How much slack is in the ripcord cable? In other words how much cable sticks through the handle (I'm assuming a metal handle) to the terminal ball? You may be big enough that your stretching the housing to its max and if there isn't enough slack in the ripcord it can pull the pin.

Have you jumped this rig before? Was it packed recently with perhaps a different (shorter) ripcord?

Best I got. Get in the rig and get hung up by the three ring or the risers. See if the ripcord is being loaded.

edit: everyone else types fast (and shorter) than I do.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerpaul 1]

was the ripcord handle still in the pocket when you got to the ground?

Both times?

[Bertt 0]

Did the reserve ripcord have a kink in it indicating it had been pulled by the RSL?

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[BobbyR1990 0]

whats your home DZ this sounds like someone i know

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

im a relatively new skydiver and on my last two jumps i had two canopies out. same situation and the dz is quite confused with the situation and think im crazy. anyway heres what went on....
---- both javelin rigs

This has been bugging me all day long.
Is this rental gear and are you packing it?

The most obvious answer is to suspect that the RC cable is too short, as mentioned by others.
Another reason could be a mis-match of the RSL to the yoke size.
But neither of these reasons account for the problem not being experienced by others using the same rig and you experiencing the same problem on two different rigs.

I would next suspect that the RSL takes a load when the main opens.
With a Collins lanyard the risers should be cutaway when the RSL takes a load.
You are not experiencing that, so either you don't have a Collins lanyard or it is misconfigured.
Without a Collins lanyard you should have a tell-tale kink in the RC cable, except that a small deployment load partially transferred to the RC cable may not leave a kink as you would see with a full cutaway.

My inclination is to suspect a packing error as opposed to something you do on opening.
FMI http://SunPath.com
Pay attention to the way the RSL is stowed, the main risers are stowed and how to close the riser tuck tabs.

FYI: There have been issues about rental gear, new jumpers and hooking up the RSL properly before.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[hchunter614 0]

Or play the lottery. Hell I'd play it anyway.

[pchapman 279]

Quote

I would next suspect that the RSL takes a load when the main opens.
.

To add to what Jan wrote, the size of the jumper might have an effect too. If something is a little misadjusted, with not a lot of slack, it can be worse when there's a big guy in the rig.

I've seen that where a particular type of rig (non USA) had a couple two outs, due to a combination of factors but starting with an RSL that may not have been quite to spec. The rigs were fine for a long time, but very occasionally when a big tall guy was jumping the rig, all the tolerances and slack in the RSL system disappeared. It seemed to be worse when the main lift web adjustments on those rigs were extended, allowing a little more loading and stretching of the container area. (Something that might not even be checked when someone checks RSL slack.)

[pilot-one 0]

I borrowed a rig a few years ago from somebody that was about my same size. What made a difference though is I'm a little more stout in the upper arms and shoulders then he is.
When I tightened up the leg straps and stood up straight the reserve popped out to the surprise of all of us. The rip cord cable when he wore the rig stuck out about 2" When I put it on it was about an inch too short. Since then I don't ever borrow or rent gear. I also check on every single jump that there isn't too much or not enough cable sticking out through the handle. Yikes!

[TCMRigging 0]

The reserve cable can be too long or the RSL can be dumping the reserve.

Have the person that was jumping the gear get into it with the rig fully packed the same as the skydive. Disconect the main three rings, hang it from a set of risers and get into it. Once fully loaded deploy the main and you will most likely see the problem. Most of the time the reserve cable does not have enough slack and will cause this problem. I have also seen the RSL do the same thing. Also if the reserve cable has alot of slack it can get locked in between your body and the harness causing the same problem during the deployment.

[BIGUN 1,399]

Agree with Jan, you and Chris regarding taller Anvil Brothers presenting additional gear challenges specific to RC length and RSL slack. If I had to venture a guess, I'd lean to the side of a combination of cinching down the leg straps and the multiple times of bending over (cinching, dirt diving, getting on the plane, sitting in the plane, bending over to exit, etc.) pulling the reserve pin back a little each time plus the then load on the RSL if there's not enough slack. As to different rigs; it may not necessarily mean different harness sizes, but just different sized main and reserve trays.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[martymar1290 0]

thanks everyone for your input. i really appreciate your time. a couple of people threw that idea past me, and it makes sense cause of my larger frame as in shoulders and chest. it just sucks to have someone basically call you an asshole and your lying about bumping your rsl and its not the gear its you imagining that there is 2 canopies above your head ready to put you in a down plane........pre-mature actions, no i was taught to look at whats going on before i make a rash action because its the difference between life and death. i love this sport too much too end it early. again thanks everyone for your time...blue skies

[JohnRich 4]

I think you already know this, but I'll say it just to make sure.

Absolutely do not just go back up and jump that same gear again, without changing anything, hoping for a normal outcome. If it happened twice in a row, there's a flaw somewhere.

A two-out situation can kill you. You've been lucky so far, but don't push it.

Before you jump that gear again, you must figure out what caused the problem, and fix it. I hope that the local staff will work with you on the ground to reproduce what occurred, so that a remedy can be created to make you safe to jump again.