billvon 3,067 #1 November 17, 2004 OK. So you're working on a train track in a subway tunnel, near a siding. You see a runaway subway car hurtling down the track. You can only take one action in time - flip a switch to divert the car onto the siding. If you do that, the one person working in the siding will be killed, and the car will derail when it hits his equipment and come to a stop before it rejoins the main line. If you do nothing, the car will kill the ten people working down the main line and continue on. Which one will it be? (And please, this is a moral exercise, not a question about subway mechanics. No "I would trip the emergency brake as it sped by with a broom handle and duct tape" answers allowed.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #2 November 17, 2004 Kill the 10 people. That way the subway continues on and there aren't any inconvenient delays Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #3 November 17, 2004 who is on the train??? who is standin beside the track?_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #4 November 17, 2004 Wow, Bill, tough one. Since you only give 2 options, with no work arounds, I'd have to opt for the greater good, and flip the switch. Sure, one death is not acceptable, but it's easier to take than 10.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun 0 #5 November 17, 2004 Do nothing, that way I might not get sued. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #6 November 17, 2004 I would probably flip the switch. That whole sacrifice one for many thing. But I don't like these questions... like the "you have to kill your best friend or the gunman will kill him and everyone else in the room" ... hate them.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #7 November 17, 2004 Wow...I just read this in the link that RevJim posted in the other Moral Delimma thread. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #8 November 17, 2004 QuoteWow...I just read this in the link that RevJim posted in the other Moral Delimma thread. Oooh, Looky da mama! Mama da thread killa! It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #9 November 17, 2004 I think I would do nothing, because: 1) I have never seen a runaway subway car, so how would I know what one looks like. 2) I do ride the subway alot, and I have never seen it with less than 10 people in it. 3) Subway trains have more than one car, so if it derails it's going to be a big fuckin' wreck and if I'm in the tunnel with it when it derails, it will kill me too and maybe get the ten workers to boot. Ride on Casey Jones._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #10 November 17, 2004 The one with the biggest tits. excuse me. I'm not sure what I'd do. one way to think about it: do nothing. to take action would be to cause the death of someone. to take no action would mean that any deaths that occurred happened as a result of things not involving me. --- Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #11 November 17, 2004 Quote The one with the biggest tits. excuse me. I'm not sure what I'd do. one way to think about it: do nothing. to take action would be to cause the death of someone. to take no action would mean that any deaths that occurred happened as a result of things not involving me. --- The sad part (and part that makes this kind of question difficult and impossible to answer) is that no matter what you do, or do not do, you are a killer. It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustaBill 0 #12 November 17, 2004 This reminds me of something. A signal tower operator is at work and the big boss shows up. Tells the signalman he has a test for him. Tells him there is a runaway coming at 80 mph and is gonna hit a passenger train headon. What's he gonna do. The signal man says he'd pull the lever and throw the switch. Boss says "when you do that the cable breaks, now what" Signal man says he'd go throw it by hand. Boss says the switch is locked and he doesn't have a key. Decides he'd go to the shed and get a hammer and break the lock. The shed is locked the boss says and hurry up those trains are getting closer by the minute. Signal man thinks for a second and says he'd call his wife. The boss explodes at that response "What can she possibly do to help you" The signal man says "Nothin but I'd tell her to bring the camera cause there is gonna be the damnedest train wreck you've ever seen" ------------------------------------------------ I've done so much, with so little, for so long I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #13 November 17, 2004 QuoteThe sad part (and part that makes this kind of question difficult and impossible to answer) is that no matter what you do, or do not do, you are a killer. no you're not. not unless you are the one who made the train go out of control in the first place. if you do nothing, then perhaps you are not heroic, or you're an insensitive asshole, but you're not a killer. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #14 November 17, 2004 If I have reason to believe the train contains passengers I kill the ten workers on the main line. If I suspect it's empty, I flip the switch. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #15 November 17, 2004 Probably go for the "one person" choice. I wouldn't have time to go through the wallets of ten people before the emergency crews showed up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 November 17, 2004 Ahhh, but what you all are overlooking is that by flipping the switch, you are personally responsible for taking an action that causes someone's death who otherwise would not have been in danger. On the other hand.... By doing nothing, you are personally responsible for not taking action that would save ten lives. So the true question is, is it morally better to take action to intentionally cause the death of an innocent in order to save others....or....letting events that you had no part in kill innocent people so that you are not personally responsible for an action that causes death? What if that one person that you kill in order to save 10 was going to discover the cure for diabetes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #17 November 17, 2004 This is kinda like a story I heard once about a man that took his son and his son's friend sea fishing. A big storm came through and the son and his friend were washed over board. The father only had one life preserver and could only save one of the boys. He thought about it for a second and yelled out to his son that he loved him and then threw the preserver to the son's friend. Why? Because the father and son were Christian's and he knew his son woud go to heaven. The son's friend was not and the father figured he would try and save the friend so he could become Christian and then get into heaven. The story goes on to reveal that the guy telling the story is a minister and was also the friend. I say let the one guy die and save the other 10. Now if I am the one guy, then I better save myself cause I am not so sure were I am going to end up yet. Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #18 November 17, 2004 Quoteto take no action would mean that any deaths that occurred happened as a result of things not involving me. By taking no action, you are deciding the outcome.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #19 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteto take no action would mean that any deaths that occurred happened as a result of things not involving me. By taking no action, you are deciding the outcome. But what are you deciding? How do you know that one guy isn't getting ready to flip a switch to save a thousand people on a different train? Or that he will discover a terrorist bomb on the tracks tomorrow? By taking no action you are being morally neutral and letting fate take its course. If there were no trade off and it was just a choice of save ten people or let ten people die. The choice is obvious. But when it's cause the death of an innocent or let 10 people die, how are you not a murderer? All murders are commited for a reason. Why is this reason better than others? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #20 November 17, 2004 do nothing do you don't get blamed for killing anyone later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #21 November 17, 2004 Quotehow are you not a murderer? Straight from Websters Quote1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought QuoteWhy is this reason better than others? Is it better to sit back and do nothing then to try and do something. It is pretty obvious that someone is going to die. I just think I woud rather try and save 10.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #22 November 17, 2004 Quote do nothing do you don't get blamed for killing anyone Wanna bet. We are living in a world of lawyers. The thing is you would probably get sued either way. At least if you save the 10 , you are only gonna get sued by one person.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 November 17, 2004 QuoteIs it better to sit back and do nothing then to try and do something. Sometimes, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #24 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteIs it better to sit back and do nothing then to try and do something. Sometimes, yes. Especially if it involves a stripper. Lots of sound moral judgements with them. It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #25 November 17, 2004 No, then you want to do something. Run...run....run....keep running. Ok, I mean it this time, I'm leaving....off to the strip club I go Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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