Metal cutaway handle

[airtwardo 7]

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I located another picture that shows the handle better.

Sparky

Earth-tone 'Bounce & Blend' colors...I like it!

Yeah... you've OBVIOUSLY never seen Sparky's choice in jumpsuit colors.

Had to wear friggin' sunglasses if on the plane with him!

He wouldn't have bounced and blended in unless he landed in a truck-load of oranges.

International Orange. . . just like ANY good fireman!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 4]

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Earth-tone 'Bounce & Blend' colors...I like it!

Here is a picture of my "bounce and Blend" period.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Staso 0]

i had a custom D-ring cutaway handle made for my odyssey. makes cutaway/reserve pull a breeze with 2 hands. i had two cutaways, first one with the regular handle and the second with the custom. really like the custom one :)

sorry for the pic (it's the only one i have here at work).

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[jumpwally 0]

Your choice of words seems misleading,,,20% pull force was produced or it took 20% more pull force ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[imsparticus 0]

anyone else think its easier to punch through the velco with a d handle as opposed to the pillow?

[virgin-burner 1]

www.basik.fr has a "hooktable"-cutaway handle that i really like..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[iambeav2 0]

HEY, quit showing pictures of MY rig you NW jackass!!

But, on a lighter note, Paul did sell me that rig and I love it. I've had to cutaway using that and it was just as easy as using a pillow, but I CAN see the benefits...

OTOH, it's also easier to snag and have something grab onto that handle.

...it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you!

[erdnarob 1]

Beware of fashion versus function. Function is the most important especially when dealing with cut away and reserve activation stuff. When I say FUNCTION here I mean BRAIN FUNCTION (since both kinds of handle work). Brain function ? What's that ?
In case of emergency (a malfunction for instance), the high stress situation makes your QI decreases a lot and you will not even remember the name of your mother, not to mention time and altitude awareness. The only thing you will feel or see or understand will be SHAPE and COLOR. That's why in my opinion the CUT AWAY HANDLE should stay a pillow type with a bright color different than your rig and the reserve handle should be silver, all of that to avoid confusion when you need the maximum of your reduced capabilities. However freeflyers prefer a pillow type reserve handle more suitable for what they do, same for CREW afficionados.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[mjosparky 4]

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The only thing you will feel or see or understand will be SHAPE and COLOR.

There are only 2 handles. That’s about as basic as it can get. If you have trouble remembering your right from you left during a “high stress situation” maybe you are in the wrong sport.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[timmyfitz 0]

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the high stress situation makes your QI decreases a lot and you will not even remember the name of your mother

QI? Oh, you mean IQ. I guess some of us don't need the high stress situation to lose mental capability.

[erdnarob 1]

You really would be surprised how confused one can be in a high stress situation even with the right and the left especially when having a first malfunction. People should put all the chances on their side. There is a thread on this forum about dealing with: WHY PEOPLE DON'T PULL THEIR RESERVE RIPCORD ? I am sure those knew the difference between their right and left side. There is a big difference between knowing what to do and doing it. Keeping shape and color different for handles is safe and deals with ergonomy.
Did you know that in airplanes the handle to lower the landing gear has the shape of a wheel and the handle for the flaps have the shape of a flap. Then do you still think the airplane designers are in the wrong activity?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[kmills0705 0]

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i had a custom D-ring cutaway handle made for my odyssey. makes cutaway/reserve pull a breeze with 2 hands. i had two cutaways, first one with the regular handle and the second with the custom. really like the custom one :)

sorry for the pic (it's the only one i have here at work).

Just out of curiosity did you remove your RSL from your Javelin? I just had an issue with my Javelin not having RSL and not noted on my packing data card as being removed by Master Rigger. I bought it used that way and had it inspected and packed twice without the notation. I asked that rigger what the deal was and he "thinks" the alteration was registered with Sunpath. Using the handy dandy search function here on dz.com (as well as Sunpath's website) to find that if it isn't on the packing data card and in the riggers log book that your rig is not airworthy.

Sorry to get off track...

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[Staso 0]

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Just out of curiosity did you remove your RSL from your Javelin? I just had an issue with my Javelin not having RSL and not noted on my packing data card as being removed by Master Rigger. I bought it used that way and had it inspected and packed twice without the notation. I asked that rigger what the deal was and he "thinks" the alteration was registered with Sunpath. Using the handy dandy search function here on dz.com (as well as Sunpath's website) to find that if it isn't on the packing data card and in the riggers log book that your rig is not airworthy.

Sorry to get off track...

i don't think you need to have the fact that your RSL is disconnected noted on the packing card. i don't remember if the RSL was ever put on my rig. I bought it new and i think it came without RSL on it and it was never put there. but i could be mistaken - it was in 2002

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[kmills0705 0]

Not disconnected, but removed. In your photo the RSL lanyard is shown with the cutaway pillow. A Master rigger is the only one allowed to remove the RSL from the container of a Javelin.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[Staso 0]

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Not disconnected, but removed. In your photo the RSL lanyard is shown with the cutaway pillow. A Master rigger is the only one allowed to remove the RSL from the container of a Javelin.

well, luckily for me, my rigger has that rating. but i don't think it's on my card. i will check tonight

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[rockola 0]

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On a skydiving rig when the shit hits the fan you only have 2 handles. One is on the right and one is one the left. Hook your thumbs in both and pull the right one first. I see no reason for them to be made of different materials.

I know an experienced jumper (1000+ jumps) who recently pulled his handles in the wrong order - and he had a pillow cutaway and a metal ripcord handle. Yes, he should have known better.

When the shit hits the fan, there's a fair bit of cognitive load. I see people in karate class mixing up left and right pretty much every time I go to the dojo. Sometimes I'm one of them.

I have no problem with people choosing to use similar handles on both sides (I may raise an eyebrow if the pillows are the same color). I'm just glad that that's not the standard.

[Bip 0]

I think the issue of pulling the wrong handle is a real one. I have a metal cutaway handle so I have covered it with Plastidip http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip

This gives the handle a different color and a different feel.

[imsparticus 0]

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Did you know that in airplanes the handle to lower the landing gear has the shape of a wheel and the handle for the flaps have the shape of a flap. Then do you still think the airplane designers are in the wrong activity?

that is because the levers are operated by the same hand and are on the same side and at arms length close to eachother (relative to their distance from the operator) much easier to mix up.

anywho the uspa and manufaturers allow same handle type/colour configurations are you suggesting they "are in the wrong activity" then.

you are sure these people knew their right from their left, great. I am sure their cutaway and reserve handles were in the configuration your recomending when they went in, which leaves us neither here nore there really.

[erdnarob 1]

The example with airplane is an illustration. The main idea here is to put all the chances on your side and avoid being confused when high stress decreases you ability to perform at your best.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[mjosparky 4]

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You really would be surprised how confused one can be in a high stress situation even with the right and the left especially when having a first malfunction. People should put all the chances on their side.

I spent 30 years as a Firefighter and over 20 years testing parachutes and parachute systems for different manufactures and the military. I am never surprised at how confused people can get when placed under even a small amount of stress. That is exactly why in my first post I said maybe some people should not be skydiving.

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Keeping shape and color different for handles is safe and deals with ergonomy.

If they can’t keep their right and left straight changing shape and color is not going to make them any less confused during a malfunction.

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Did you know that in airplanes the handle to lower the landing gear has the shape of a wheel and the handle for the flaps have the shape of a flap. Then do you still think the airplane designers are in the wrong activity?

Yes, I am aware of that. I have been a pilot since 1981. Did you know that on many GA planes that the throttle, prop and mixture controls are all the same shape and right next to each other?
I have never said that aircraft designers are in the wrong activity, put there are plenty of pilots that are.

I used the “2 metal handles” system for 7 out of 11 cutaways that I have had. The other 4 were on capewells. I think the bottom line is to train on whatever system you choose to use and not lose you cool when the shit hits the fan. This can be done for most people through the confidence gained by training on a regular basis. But then again all of this is just my opinion.

Sparky

Edited to add attachment.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,426]

Hi Michael,

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I think the bottom line is to train on whatever system you choose to use and not lose you cool when the shit hits the fan.

Bingo!!!!!

All of my personal modern rigs have had the reserve handle on the right lift web & the cutaway handle on the left lift web.

I have performed numerous cutaways, all emergency, and never once got confused on what handle was what.

Just my thoughts . . .

JerryBaumchen

[mjosparky 4]

Here is a direct quote from Bill Booth. It almost sounds like he is endorsing a metal handle.

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Your cutaway pillow is "soft". It feels a lot like your harness or your jumpsuit. With gloves on, you literally can't tell the difference. So you can't really depend upon your sense of feel to find it quickly, can you?" It is also rather unlikely that you will be able to identify it using your senses of smell, taste, or hearing. Let's see...what do we have left? Ah, Yes... your sense of sight...and you say that you want to handicap even that, by making your breakaway pillow blend into its surroundings? Please think again.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydiverek 63]

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Here is a direct quote from Bill Booth. It almost sounds like he is endorsing a metal handle.

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Your cutaway pillow is "soft". It feels a lot like your harness or your jumpsuit. With gloves on, you literally can't tell the difference. So you can't really depend upon your sense of feel to find it quickly, can you?" It is also rather unlikely that you will be able to identify it using your senses of smell, taste, or hearing. Let's see...what do we have left? Ah, Yes... your sense of sight...and you say that you want to handicap even that, by making your breakaway pillow blend into its surroundings? Please think again.

Sparky

Hmmmm, read the whole story from Bill Booth:

"Again, if pillows are so bad, why are they used as cutaway handles on 99% of the rigs out there?"

Although I designed the "soft pillow" handle for the 3-ring release in the first place, I won't get into the discussion (too much) about whether it makes a good reserve handle for freeflyers. Most decisions in skydiving are tradeoffs, and this is certainly one of them. However, I do think a pillow makes a better cutaway handle than a reserve handle, simply because, where the pillow is in a cutaway situation, is much different from where it is in a reserve pull situation. Think about it. In almost all situations where a cutaway is needed, you're hanging from your main risers, and your main lift web, where your cutaway pillow sits, is pulled up and away from your body, so your cutaway pillow is literally right in front of your nose.

Now think of where your reserve handle is in a total malfunction. It's down below your armpit, tucked tightly against your body, maybe even UNDER the webbing, and more than a little bit hard to see, especially if you're wearing a full face helmet. Now think how much a reserve pillow handle feels like your harness, or a fold in your jumpsuit, especially if you're wearing gloves. Now picture yourself low, out of time, and in desperate need of a reserve handle that you can't see or feel. Aren't you glad you bought that Cypres?"