"white out"

[kewlf 0]

Hi all,

had my AFF2 today, managed the program except the left turn pretty well, still it made me feel I screwed up because of the left turn. At 6.000ft, as supposed, I gave the "no more work" head shake and watched my altimeter, supposed to wait until 5.100ft, then wave off and pull. So far, so good. Next thing I consciously realized is the index finger of my instructor stuck close to my face, and the needle of the altimeter approaching what I thought is 3.000ft (actually it was 3.600ft). I pulled immediately, the canopy ride was fine.

What kinda freaks me is that I'm totally missing 1.500ft of freefall, I've got no memory at all, and obviously I was stable but just not acting properly.
Of course I felt anxiety in the plane, but it was only approximately half compared to my first AFF jump. And I do feel time is rushing in freefall and I was so focussed on my tasks that I didn't see and notice much other stuff compared to when I was on my tandems.

So, what do you think? Sensory overload? Did anyone experience something similar? Do I have to be concerned about this?

[jwynne 0]

My student jump were long ago, but I still remember experiencing sensory overload. I exited looking toward the prop 5 or 6 times before I ever saw the plane. It's a very different enviornment your body is getting used to. Every jump will get better. When I haven't jumped for months (usually due to injury) I still experience tunnel vision when I first go up, and as I get more current my vision widens out. I still work on seeing more on every skydive and I think I can always improve.

Not exactly what you asked, but I think it's normal and will just get better every jump. That's why you're jumping with instructors now.

Janna

[AggieDave 6]

Dude, take a deep breath. You have two jumps, it will take another 998 until you feel like you've arrived in the sport. Then another 1000 until you think you have something figured out. I'm still trying to figure out when you become an expert. Once I get there, I'll let you know, I haven't found how many jumps its takes, but even Craig who has 25,000 jumps and hundreds of hours of tunnel time learns new stuff.

Moral of the story. once again, take a deep breath, go talk to your instructors and most importantly HAVE FUN! Remember, you started jumping to have fun, not to beat yourself up about not completing your second jump perfectly! You reacted to the pull signal right? So you had a bit of a brain fart, go jump again and SMILE!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mjosparky 4]

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I'm still trying to figure out when you become an expert.

Dave,

There are no experts in this sport, all the experts are dead.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jamiem 1]

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My student jump were long ago, but I still remember experiencing sensory overload. I exited looking toward the prop 5 or 6 times before I ever saw the plane. It's a very different enviornment your body is getting used to. Every jump will get better. When I haven't jumped for months (usually due to injury) I still experience tunnel vision when I first go up, and as I get more current my vision widens out. I still work on seeing more on every skydive and I think I can always improve.

I completely agree. It gets easier to focus the more you do it, and once you go uncurrent it backtracks and gets a little harder to focus again.

[AggieDave 6]

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Dave,

There are no experts in this sport, all the experts are dead.

Sparky

The more jumps I do and the more time I've had in this sport, the more I know that you are 100% right!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy9o8 2]

>Sensory overload?

Yep.

>Did anyone experience something similar?

Yes, it's very common on a student's first couple of jumps.

>Do I have to be concerned about this?

Not really. Sensory overload is your brain dealing with suddenly being in a very alien environment (freefall). It generally dissipates after a few jumps, as being freefall becomes more familiar.

[mjosparky 4]

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Dave,

There are no experts in this sport, all the experts are dead.

Sparky

The more jumps I do and the more time I've had in this sport, the more I know that you are 100% right!

The problem is I am only 100% right about 25% of the time.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Chubba 0]

Just keep with it, you will be suprised how much you will improve from your initial jumps
You still had a safe deployment height, it becomes easier after you lose some of the nerves and relax in freefall.

Hop n pops really helped me, taking a nice 5 - 10 second delay / watching the altimeter go down below 3000 (my terminal deployment) to ~2500.

[kewlf 0]

Thank you all for sharing your experience and for the encouragement!

Yep, I'll definitely take it with less ambition next time and will try to enjoy myself more

[Bill_K 0]

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Just keep with it, you will be suprised how much you will improve from your initial jumps
You still had a safe deployment height, it becomes easier after you lose some of the nerves and relax in freefall.

Hop n pops really helped me, taking a nice 5 - 10 second delay / watching the altimeter go down below 3000 (my terminal deployment) to ~2500.

Not to bust your butt to hard, but right now you should be pulling by 3k my friend, if your profile is right. Here is a link to that section in the SIM. Take care, be safe!

[Chubba 0]

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Not to bust your butt to hard, but right now you should be pulling by 3k my friend, if your profile is right. Here is a link to that section in the SIM. Take care, be safe!

I deploy by 3500 on terminal jumps, I just feel a lot more comfortable deploying stable between 3000 - 2500 on hop n pops.

My first hop n pop (AFF9) I did a 3 second delay and the opening was so shit I nearly had a cutaway so I burn a little bit more altitude and it's working good.

15 jumps to B license, so don't get too mad

[Bill_K 0]

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Not to bust your butt to hard, but right now you should be pulling by 3k my friend, if your profile is right. Here is a link to that section in the SIM. Take care, be safe!

I deploy by 3500 on terminal jumps, I just feel a lot more comfortable deploying stable between 3000 - 2500 on hop n pops.

My first hop n pop (AFF9) I did a 3 second delay and the opening was so shit I nearly had a cutaway so I burn a little bit more altitude and it's working good.

15 jumps to B license, so don't get too mad

Not mad at all. Sound response; however what are your pull priorities?

1. Pull
2. Pull at proper altitude
3. Pull at proper altitude with stability

So based on that. If your H-n-P altitude is starting at say 3500+, as it should at the very least based on your profile, that's 5-6 seconds to get stable before you need to hit number 2.

Get some coaching on how you can improve your exit so that your H-n-P's go smoother. Good luck, take care and BE SAFE!!

[labrys 0]

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My first hop n pop (AFF9) I did a 3 second delay and the opening was so shit I nearly had a cutaway so I burn a little bit more altitude and it's working good.

There isn't any logic in this, Chubba. You had one, count 'em one, bad sub terminal deployment and that's your reason to pull lower? Do you really think that just because you've had a few jumps go well because of the additional delay that this is a good idea?

Serious here, guy. If you want to make sure you get to terminal before you pull, the answer at 20 jumps is not to pull lower, it's to exit a bit higher for now.

Owned by Remi #?

[Chubba 0]

I'm not struggling to get stable now, I just typically do a dive exit and read my alti down to 3ish, by the time I've opened it's 2500 and I'm under canopy 2+ so I don't see it as much of a problem.

More fun to flip out the door then do the poised exit and try to deploy straight away

[Andy9o8 2]

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I'm not struggling to get stable now, I just typically do a dive exit and read my alti down to 3ish, by the time I've opened it's 2500 and I'm under canopy 2+ so I don't see it as much of a problem.

More fun to flip out the door then do the poised exit and try to deploy straight away

You're missing the point. You're still opening at 2500 when you should be opening at 3000. "Opening" means the altitude at which your main container OPENS - not the altitude at which you reach to deploy. Either deploy higher when jumping from that altitude, or jump from an altitude 1000 ft higher - whatever it takes to assure an OPEN main container no lower than 3000.

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I'm under canopy 2+ so I don't see it as much of a problem.

You need to understand that this is a dangerous attitude for a student or novice to have. At your level, the fact that you may still be above 2000 is beside the point - a jumper's opening altitude and EP hard deck, especially a novice's, are minimums, not standards.

At your experience level, you need more time to react to an emergency than an experienced jumper. Your first emergency (and you WILL have one) might not be a simple "slow lineover and pop the cutaway" variety. You might have a baglock / horsehoe with the bridal wrapped around your ankle and lines all over the place. You're still at (or accelerating to) terminal! Will you have the presence of mind to un-freeze yourself from "Oh, shit!", ignore the risers slapping you in the face, clear that bridal from your ankle* (*if that's what you've been instructed, or decide you should do - ask your instructor), find your cutaway handle after your harness has shifted around, and do a clean cutaway, all before your AAD fires your reserve right into that mess? Time is altitude, and altitude is life. An extra 5 or 6 seconds might make the difference between surviving or not.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'm not struggling to get stable now, I just typically do a dive exit and read my alti down to 3ish, by the time I've opened it's 2500 and I'm under canopy 2+ so I don't see it as much of a problem.

More fun to flip out the door then do the poised exit and try to deploy straight away

you can do a flip and still be opening within a few hundred feet. And while it's more fun, can you do a smooth poised exit on demand (emergency or RW group exit)?

What's your decision altitude? I had full canopy openings as low as 2300 and decided I wanted more time to deal with potential issues. I had the PC bridle go over a D line and couldn't decide if I should cut or not before I got to 1800.

[flyinhi79 0]

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I'm not struggling to get stable now, I just typically do a dive exit and read my alti down to 3ish, by the time I've opened it's 2500 and I'm under canopy 2+ so I don't see it as much of a problem.

More fun to flip out the door then do the poised exit and try to deploy straight away

2500!!!!!
When I was in AFF and Coach jumps I was required to be locked in at 6500 and wave off and pull at 5500!!!! Are you sure you didn't mean 5500?????

IMHO, there is no need to take such a HUGE risk by pulling that low! If you are not under canopy until 2000-2500 feet and you than have to do a canopy control check "visually inspect the canopy for mals, release the brakes, do a 360 right, 360 left, and full flare" you are down to around 1000-1500 feet!!!! Than you have to get to your holding area. This leaves very little room for error. I swear I was told or it was written in the SIM that a student is required to waive off and pull at 5500ft. Anyone know more about this???

Please advise.

[labrys 0]

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I swear I was told or it was written in the SIM that a student is required to waive off and pull at 5500ft

A student is required to have their container open by 3000'

Owned by Remi #?

[Chubba 0]

I should post less

I'll wait till I'm B-licensed

[JohnDeere 0]

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I should post less

I'll wait till I'm B-licensed

I dont understand people. I hear some newbs say "I cant wait untill i have X lic. so i can pull lower". WTF that is an ignorant statement. There are reasons to pull lower, and just cuase i can is not a good one. I have a couple more jumps than you and i still pull by 3500. I have had my first reserve ride. It was a PCIT "high speed" and i was still under reserve by 3000. I am not worried about me performing my EP's, I will when i need to by the correct alt. I pull higher becuase i can, and it gives me that much more time to deal with things. You need to re think why you pull lower. Remember at 2000 ft you have about 7-9 sec. to save you ass.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[Chubba 0]

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There are reasons to pull lower, and just cuase i can is not a good one.

I pull at that height because it's where I feel most comfortable, I fly a very light wingloading and I'm fully open by on average ~2200ft.

So if the minimum states I have to open at 3000ft for the next 15 jumps or so... I will obligued... but I do not feel any bit safer (quite the opposite) trying to do a 2 second delay poised exit.

I was just doing what felt safe and comfortable So when I'm legally allowed to do it, of course I will go back to deploying at 2500ft.

If that's ignorant, well I'm ignorant :(

[pilotdave 0]

Feeling comfortable is not the same as being safe. You may feel comfortable pulling that low, but it will bite you in the ass when you least expect it. Not too many experienced jumpers pull that low on normal jumps these days. Wait till you have a pilot chute hesitation or go unstable as you begin to pull... or see traffic, have a malfunction, etc, etc, etc... Things happen FAST at those low altitudes and you will find yourself dangerously low sooner or later and you won't see it coming.

You should be fully open and deciding if you have a good canopy by 2500... at least until you have an A-license. Finishing your opening around 2000 will give you very little time to make any decisions... and NO time when things go unexpectedly. If you're jumping student gear now, you should also realize that your own canopy will probably take longer to open.

I was doing 30-ways last week. Organizers told the people on the outside of the formation (where I was) to pull at 2500. That's what I was doing, and somehow I always seemed to pull lower than anyone else. Course it helped that I was always tracking toward the DZ.

Dave

[VTmotoMike08 0]

He (Chubba) just needs one good hard spinning mal to make him want to take that pull altitude up a little bit It'll build character.

[Broke 0]

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I'm not struggling to get stable now, I just typically do a dive exit and read my alti down to 3ish, by the time I've opened it's 2500 and I'm under canopy 2+ so I don't see it as much of a problem.

More fun to flip out the door then do the poised exit and try to deploy straight away

you only see no problem because you haven't had a malfunction yet. When you take it to the basement you risk a cypress fire. Also use as much altitude as you can to really learn what all your inputs do on your canopy.

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