mindcool 0 #1 December 8, 2009 hey guys last week i had my first malfunction. I'm posting it here since i'm sure we can learn a lot about it. Main Canopy: Katana 97 Container: Infinity RSL: yes Reserve: PD113 Cypress: yes the toggles slack got caught up with the slider's catcher that was on the reserve flap. the slider's catcher just snapped out of the reserve flap and somehow this whole mess was all around my right risers... here are some pictures that we took on the ground after we've found the main canopy what do u guys think? what could have prevent this from happening? i already heard few possibilities: 1) fixing the toggles slack in it's place would have prevent it 2) the last stowing rubber band was made too close to the riser which caused the d-bag float very close above the container on opening... if thats the case, any line could have caught that slider catcher, not just the toggles slack... 3) non of this could have happened if i didnt have a slider catcher (whats the name of that thing anyways?). very lucky me that it didnt stay on the reserve flap - and then i could cut away... here's the cutaway video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17E1DKsZjI8 even though it's not easy u might notice that theres something wrapped around both right risers... what do you guys think? :-Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 December 8, 2009 for that same reason French Teams are not allowed to have such a slider stopper, and the "normal" French jumpers are advised not to. The good thing for you is that the ball got ripped off the reserve flap. Excess break line should be properly stowed Snagpoints should be limitedscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #3 December 8, 2009 stow your break line slack better Less things can be caught. leave at least 50cm between the links and the last line stow You D-bag can bounce further from your body. have at least 5 second delay before pull You may have cleaner air, higher air speed helps PC makes better job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d100965 0 #4 December 8, 2009 Are your steering/brake toggles like the uUPT Trulok ones? They appear to be the same, i.e. They have a pin at the bottom of the toggle. With uUPT Trulok toggles you should pin the excess brake line when you pin the bottom of the toggle. I would suggest you do the same with your toggles. If you do not know what I'm talking about check out page 53 of the Vector 3 owners manual which you can download from their website:-http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=66 p.s. I know your container is an Infinity and not a Vector. However this procedure for setting your brakes and stowing the excess brake line is a very good method. You'd be surprised how many Vector owners with Trulok toggles don't know that either! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKR 0 #5 December 8, 2009 Such slider stopper are the most modern stupid toy ever made.Jérôme Bunker Basik Air Concept www.basik.fr http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breadhead 0 #6 December 8, 2009 Get one of these: http://www.chutingstargear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=50_54&products_id=391 or have your rigger make one for you (will be cheaper). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #7 December 8, 2009 yup, some fookers sell them in Switzerland at double the price The system which exists (?) on BKR's rigs is pretty cool in my opinion. A releasable ball. scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #8 December 8, 2009 Quote Get one of these: http://www.chutingstargear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=50_54&products_id=391 or have your rigger make one for you (will be cheaper). I have one of these, it's awesome. Sometimes it flips over itself in free fall & is harder to reach but it works really well. As a bonus, it can also hold your top flap for you when you're packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #9 December 8, 2009 Quote yup, some fookers sell them in Switzerland at double the price hey - if you buy an 85$ membership per year, you get 10% off AND a free email - if that aint smart, i dont know what else is! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #10 December 8, 2009 QuoteSuch slider stopper are the most modern stupid toy ever made. We've talked about those before in this forum, as a potential problem. And now we have proof that it's actually happened. Previous discussion, from 4 years ago: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1518168;#1518168 It's not a packing mistake. It's a mistake the jumper made in choosing to add something to his gear that isn't supposed to be there. These gizmos are designed to hook onto things and not let go, for tying down tarps: http://shop.coversuperstore.com/index.cfm?categoryID=276&fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=6083 So why would you want something like that hanging behind your backpack in freefall? The lesson to be learned here, is the same old tired lesson that we've preached for years, to which the new guys never listen: Don't monkey around with your gear without expert advice - seemingly harmless things can cause major problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKR 0 #11 December 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteSuch slider stopper are the most modern stupid toy ever made. We've talked about those before in this forum, as a potential problem. And now we have proof that it's actually happened. Previous discussion, from 4 years ago: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1518168;#1518168 It's not a packing mistake. It's a mistake the jumper made in choosing to add something to his gear that isn't supposed to be there. The lesson to be learned here, is the same old tired lesson that we've preached for years, to which the new guys never listen: Don't monkey around with your gear without expert advice - seemingly harmless things can cause major problems. +100000000000000Jérôme Bunker Basik Air Concept www.basik.fr http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #12 December 8, 2009 I've never cared for the ball/rubberband slider stows, since you have something in the airstream that is INTENDED to hook a line/rubber band and not let goThe risers look like UPT risers, not that it would have made much difference if they were ours. I doubt your last line stow had much to do with the malfnction, unless your main PC is very weak and has a hard time lifting the bag away from your back. No line twists on the reserve? AMAZING! Good job on dealing with an unlandable canopy VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #13 December 8, 2009 Quote leave at least 50cm between the links and the last line stow Leave NO MORE THAN 50 cm!!! Longer "free" lines = bigger chance of horse shoeBlue skies"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #14 December 8, 2009 It's nice that the reserve cover flap came open. I wonder if that would have been the case on a more agressive flap like a vector or a marage? You would hope that at least the bungy would break but streamering from a break line after a cutaway...? Every time I say some thing silly like, "I don't see how it can hurt you..." some one finds a new way to kill them selves. Also once I refused to put one on some guys rig. It was an old Tallon 2 or something like that that didn't have an "opening cover flap". Basically he wanted me to pack it under the top flap and I told him he couldn't do that. He was a free flier and had to look cool like all his friends. I think he fished it through him self because I seem to recall seeing him later with his slider behind his neck. LeeLee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 December 8, 2009 Your mistake was installing that silly "ball on a bungee cord" gadget anywhere near your reserve container. I had sewn dozen or so of Sandy Reid's "slider catchers" to main risers before I ever saw your gadget. That "ball on a bungee cord" gadget scared me the first time I saw it and they still scare me! You would be far wiser to ask your local rigger to sew a set of "slider catchers" to your main risers. Try looking up Brian Germaine's "Slocks." Rigging Innovations' slider catchers look like ratchets or tuck tabs sewn to main risers. Lately I have been folding triangular slider catchers, starting with 1.5 inch wide Type 4 tape and sewing them to main risers 1.5 inches above the crotch. The bottom line is that many safer versions of "slider catchers" have been invented - before and after - that scary "ball on a bungee cord" gadget. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 December 8, 2009 QuoteSuch slider stopper are the most modern stupid toy ever made. Such slider stopper are the most stupid modern toy ever made. Fixed it for you and I agree. This problem isn't new. I'd advise getting rid of it and replacing it withe either riser slider stow tabs commonly referred to as "slocks", a velcro slider keeper attached to the yoke trim tape, or a removable slider which has it's own problems. The magnetic keeper is better, but still a problem as it attaches to the pin cover. Not something I'm willing to mess with.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #17 December 8, 2009 Isn't somebody making a magnetic slider holder thingamabob? I saw one a while back and it didn't look like a custom one of a kind unit...made sense, plenty of 'hold' but not enough to hinder normal EP's. Edited to add: Guess JP answered my question, but the one I saw was attached closer to the yoke a little off center behind the neck. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #18 December 9, 2009 Was it a Sky Tie? http://www.skysystemsusa.com/accessories/SkyTie.htm Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindcool 0 #19 December 9, 2009 hey again and thank you guys for all your comments u guys are right, it is pretty silly to put that ball so i'll switch it to something safer like that magnetic thing or the slocks! i dont wanna think what would have hapenned if that plastic ball havent snagged out and i'd try to cutaway... especially with my RSL connected ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #20 December 9, 2009 Quote Quote leave at least 50cm between the links and the last line stow Leave NO MORE THAN 50 cm!!! Longer "free" lines = bigger chance of horse shoeBlue skies Huh? How do longer free lines(stowed in a closed container) add to the chances of a horse shoe? Am I missing something? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #21 December 9, 2009 vector3 = secondary riser-covers AND magnetic primers..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 December 9, 2009 QuoteWas it a Sky Tie? http://www.skysystemsusa.com/accessories/SkyTie.htm Quote: "Using this product may interfere with the function of container and may increase chances of entanglement." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #23 December 9, 2009 Quotevector3 = secondary riser-covers AND magnetic primers.. Replying to me? What? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #24 December 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote leave at least 50cm between the links and the last line stow Leave NO MORE THAN 50 cm!!! Longer "free" lines = bigger chance of horse shoeBlue skies Huh? How do longer free lines(stowed in a closed container) add to the chances of a horse shoe? Am I missing something? The lines are very chaotic on deployment and longer lines have a greater chance of catching on a main flap. I've personally seen a fatality due to this. Bill Booth did some interesting work on this including slow motion video of deployments, with the lines flying about. The Vector manual specifically states "Leave no more than 15 inches (37 cm) of lines unstowed between the bag and the connector links." There IS a reason for this!"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #25 December 9, 2009 When I just had slocks on my rig, the slider would still expand & block my vision which is why I added the skytie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
