linebckr83 3 #1 December 10, 2009 My nitron 170 has hma lines with no cascades, but the control lines are the thick spectra I believe, like on student canopies. The knot on the toggle is pretty big obviously and I have trouble getting slider grommets over that part of the riser sometimes. Anyone else have that problem or have ideas to fix it? The bulk of the stowed line is in that same area, making it even thicker right there."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #2 December 10, 2009 I had the same problem on a canopy with darcron steering lines. I ended up taking the knot out of the the toggle, and just fingretrapping and bartacking. that helped somewhat, but at the end going for vectran lower steering is what did it for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjm 0 #3 December 10, 2009 I have a Nitro 150, and the same problem my first few jumps. I don't know how to bar tack, so I just moved the knot closer to the end of the line (thus making loop that attachs to the toggle smaller). The idea is to find the perfect placement so that to knot is partially in the grommet of the toogle. This will minimize the exposure and bulk of the knot. Hopefully I explained that right. For the better solution see above. If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #4 December 10, 2009 I was thinking about replacing it too. Since the others are hma, would vectran be a better choice than spectra? The 750lb is $.90 a yard from paragear."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
butlerhr 0 #5 December 11, 2009 Yes Vectran 750 is a better choice than spectra because it is dimensionally stable where spectra is not. Would be crazy to have all the suspension lines stable and the brake lines shrinking with use. I am presently using this set up on a nitron 135 because the dacron replacement brake lines are too short to allow good front riser turns. The 750 vectran brake lines have a service life about equal to the HMA suspension lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 December 11, 2009 If it's from the factory, it not Spectra, but 400lb Dacron instead. It's the appropriate material, I wouldn't change it. Finish the steering lines properly with a finger trap and bartack once you're sure you have the right length.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #7 December 11, 2009 ...or, for people without access to a bartack machine, the no-sew fingertrap . works great, looks neat. "Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,441 #8 December 11, 2009 Hi bunky, Quote ...or, for people without access to a bartack machine, the no-sew fingertrap . works great, looks neat. The day that you can do it with a Dacron line, send me a sample. I've tried numerous times without any success. YMMV. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #9 December 11, 2009 When I called Precision about mine, they told me 400 lbs. Dacron, but I happened to have 600 lbs. so I used that. You can fingertrap it, then hand sew it and get it bar tacked at your next re-pack."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #10 December 12, 2009 QuoteMy nitron 170 has hma lines with no cascades, but the control lines are the thick spectra I believe, like on student canopies. The knot on the toggle is pretty big obviously and I have trouble getting slider grommets over that part of the riser sometimes. Anyone else have that problem or have ideas to fix it? The bulk of the stowed line is in that same area, making it even thicker right there. I don't know if it will solve your issue or not, but my dad's canopy has the same control lines if I understand your description correctly. Once he found the correct length he had a rigger friend bartack the line. He doesn't have a bartack machine, but used a commercial machine with close zig-zag pattern I think and it came out quite nice. If you feel so inclined I'll show you what I mean next time we are out and perhaps it's the solution you are looking for. My control lines are done with the no-sew finger trap but we couldn't get that big line to finger trap like that.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #11 December 12, 2009 Its not about finger trapping the lines, I already do that whenever I remove and reattach my toggles. I have trouble pulling slider grommets down over the toggle knots so I can put the slider behind my head. I have 12 yards of 750lb vectran on the way from paragear. Maybe Ill comment on my customer service too "Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #12 December 12, 2009 I don't really know enough about this problem to address it. I thought perhaps the removal of the knot in favor of the bartacking would help. I don't pull my slider down. I only collapse it and leave it where it is. Since you have had experience with both pulling your slider down, and also removing it entirely, have you found a noticeable improvement in flight characteristics? I have wondered if it really makes much of a difference, and after seeing your removable slider last time I was out I was curious how much difference it makes.www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #13 December 12, 2009 There are a million threads on this, and most people agree it depends on the canopy and wl. I dont think itll matter much on a 210 loaded at 1:1, and it isnt a whole lot on my 170. But moving the slider from the top of the risers effectively increases your line length and reduces the anhedral arc. I do notice a difference in glide and flaring power, and my riser pressure does seem to be less, although that could be in my head since im working out . I did not go removable for drag decrease as my swooping technique leaves a whole lot to be desired still, but I just dont like not being able to look up, sideways, or behind me when i have my slider in my skytie. It is still collapsible because sometimes, like on windy days or back-to-back loads, it just isn't worth taking off. "Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #14 December 14, 2009 Well I was being an idiot and misinterpreted what everyone was saying about fingertrapping and bar tacking. I assumed the idea was to pass the line thru the toggle grommet, around the side of the toggle then fingertrap/bartack it. Instead, I think the idea is fingertrap the line to create a loop where the knot originally was, bartack it, THEN pass the loop thru the toggle grommet and the toggle thru the loop. Basically the same as most layouts except stitching is used instead of a knot. My bad, thanks for helping me realize it. I fingertrapped it already and will have it bar tacked later this week. On a positive note, I now have 12 unused yards of vectran to go build something with "Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
