sunshine 2 #126 September 2, 2004 QuoteThere are a few Treasure Island stores in Chicago...there is one near the downtown Dave and Busters. Sunny - I always make fun of Val to her face! Now why did you mention D&B's?? Now i'm all excited to go. I also make fun of val to her face, and everyone else for that matter. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #127 September 2, 2004 A few observations about meat: It takes 10-15 pounds of grain to make one pound of meat. As we grow in population, that means you can feed 10 people from a given acreage if they eat a vegetarian diet, or 1 person if they eat meat. This will become a moral decision before too long - eat meat and let others starve? Some places treat their animals better than other places. Most places are pretty cruel to their animals; some are pretty humane. It can be worthwhile to find out which is which. Moral issues (i.e. "what rights does an animal have") are, in general, not amenable to any sort of obective discussion. We're primarily herbivores with pretty recent adaptations to be able to eat meat. Our partial adaptation is one reason we have so many health problems with a heavy meat diet (atherosclerosis, obesity, high blood pressure.) Just about any diet that involves heavy reliance on one part of the food "pyramid" can be difficult. Generally, concentrating on non-meat foods will result in fewer problems, since we have the gut design to live on a herbivorous diet. Listening to your own appetite will often get you in trouble. We do have programmed desires for things that we need (like vitamin C) but we also are programmed based on a time when starvation was a real threat - and fatty meat is about the highest-calorie food you can normally get your hands on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #128 September 2, 2004 QuoteIt takes 10-15 pounds of grain to make one pound of meat. As we grow in population, that means you can feed 10 people from a given acreage if they eat a vegetarian diet, or 1 person if they eat meat. This will become a moral decision before too long - eat meat and let others starve? I've heard 4, 7, and 16 - I guess we'll just call it in the middle somewhere? Or say it depends on what kind of meat? And, honest question - are you saying 1 pound of grain has the same nutritional value as 1 pound of meat?it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflajankie 0 #129 September 2, 2004 (I want to stop eating meat completely. I'm going to let myself have tuna/salmon for awhile, but I'd like to give those up, too, eventually. I already take a multivitamin, but I know that I still have to eat right) I have always heard that you have to eat right and all that stuff. I don't belive it... I have always been eating tons of candy (swedish good tasting candy) and drinking lots of sodas and not much exercise. And people has always told me that you will get sick bla bla bla. Before I came here I had to take some medical tests and everything was great. I have also been a guinipig for e medical company and tests say I'm healthy. My point here, I don't know. But that my thoughts on eating healthy. A couple of years ago I stopped eating meat and ate only fish. No problem. And sometimes I would eat chicken. But now I eat only Fish. And I never missed either. So Stick to fish and candy an you will be fine Good luckSkydivers are a bunch of insensitive jerks... And that's why I don't skydive anymore! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #130 September 2, 2004 QuoteI'm going to try to give up meat....need advice Yeah...shoot yourself in the head because it's all downhill after you stop eating thick, juicy, savory, marinated steaks and burgers mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. QuoteI'm going to let myself have tuna Shhhhhhh...Dagny may be lurking. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #131 September 2, 2004 Quoteare you saying 1 pound of grain has the same nutritional value as 1 pound of meat? When you're talking about living on a sustainable planet where no one starves, I'd say it does. And if you're talking about a varied mix of grains and vegetables - I'd say for sure. To another point, vegetarians only need supplements (other than maybe B12) because - just like most people (even meat eaters) - they don't measure and food combine meticulously at every meal. Being vegetarian does NOT inherently mean being malnutritioned. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #132 September 2, 2004 QuoteWhen you're talking about living on a sustainable planet where no one starves, I'd say it does. I'm not questioning that fruits and veggies are a more efficent use of land for producing food, I'm questioning that it's really 16-to-1... I think Bill's statistic is a little over-stated. Take an acre for feed-grain, take another for whatever mix of fruit/veggies/grains - I have a hard time believing you'll get 16 times the nutrition out of the fruit/veggies acre.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #133 September 2, 2004 QuoteI want to stop eating meat completely. Advice? Get lots of batteries! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #134 September 2, 2004 One day when I lived in Santa Cruz, CA (hippie kingdom of the world) I ran into a guy who worked at the Whole Foods health food store. He was a hare krishna (sp?) dude who started telling me about the benefits of vegetarianism. I was really interested in all he was telling me about and he gave me a short paperback book to read called the Karmic Diet. (I think that was the name). Anyway, I read that book and became a vegetarian overnight. I could not stand to look at or eat meat after reading that book. I became a health food junky, ate lots of legumes, pasta, rice, fish and other creative things. Most of what I ate had 0 fat and I dropped weight fast. I've been wanting to go back to vegetarianism and I am sure that I will again someday. I still cannot believe that I did not eat any meat for over 6 months. I leaned how to cook some very healthy and good tasting meals which were much healthier for my body than had they had meat in them. Overall I had much more energy, felt and looked much better. Good luck.Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #135 September 2, 2004 MOrningstar Farms makes an EXCELLENT black bean patty. I'd choose that over regular burgers ANY day. wonderful! Also Chilis restaurant offers black bean patties instead of burgers and they are great too. __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #136 September 2, 2004 >I've heard 4, 7, and 16 - I guess we'll just call it in the middle somewhere? It takes 3-4 lbs of good grain to make 1 pound of cow (or 10 or so lbs of low quality feed like grass.) However, we don't eat the whole cow; useful meat ends up at the 10-15 lb number. We discard the rest. >And, honest question - are you saying 1 pound of grain has the >same nutritional value as 1 pound of meat? It's around 2:1. Beef contains around 260 calories per 100 grams; corn around 120. So you have to feed a cow 5-8 calories to get one out. Of course there is far more to food than calories, but from a pure preventing-starvation thing it's about 6 to 1 i.e. you can feed 6 people on grain for every 1 you feed on meat and have no one starve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #137 September 3, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhat are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products? Honestly, I don't know. I eat a lot of cottage cheese, yougurt, ice cream, eggs, etc. Definately look into upping your calcium and iron intake through supplements (vitamins). I take the calciums with magnesium, which your body needs to absorb the calcium. I take additional calcium for the occasional crash landing. Iron is found in leafy green vegetables such as spinach. I would recommend additional iron supplements as well, especially for a woman. edit to add: http://www.saveonsupplements.com/ This is a good site for supplements. My wife likes it - she usually drinks a fruit/protein shake on the way to work in the morning. Be very particular what vitamins and mineral supplements you choose. The best ones are made from organic plants. These will be used by your body in whole and will deliver the amount of nutrition the label says. On the other hand, cheap chemical supplements will -not- dissolve in your system. They will pass right through your body and end up at the settling ponds of the sewer...still intact. A test you can do is take a dose of supplement...the pill...and see how long it takes to dissolve in a glass of water. If it takes over 30 minutes then your stomach won't absorb it in time before it passes through. The vitamins I take dissolve within 10 minutes. And yes, I am a vegetarian and have been for over 40 years. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taffy 0 #138 September 3, 2004 You guys don't get Marmite do you? Sky Pikey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taffy 0 #139 September 3, 2004 Personally don't eat factory farmed meat, I do eat organic free range meat and fish, but don't miss the meat enough to buy it. Factory Farmed meat is RANK! Animals that sit around in their own shit all day, and get pumped full of drugs which would kill a human, usually have a load of things wrong with them etc Apart from that it's just cruel But before all the meat eaters jump on that comment, I have no problem with killing things to eat them, have done in the past and would do it again. Which is more than most meat eaters would ever do Sky Pikey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taffy 0 #140 September 3, 2004 QuoteQuoteWhy don`t you like tofu? My uncle is vegetarian, and my grandma makes him special tofu dishes sometimes. I've tried it, and I don't like. It tastes funny. Maybe if I pour a bunch of hot sauce on it.... Try going to some decent Oriental resturants, they know how to cook Tofu properly, Jap, Thai, Chinese etc. Also recommed Indian cooking, not Tofu but I live off curries Madhur Jaffrey does the best cook books Also take it you've read Fast Food Nation to put you off eating meat? Sky Pikey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #141 September 3, 2004 don't let anyone cook bacon near you... the smell of that was my downfall... oh well... I have no will power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #142 September 3, 2004 QuoteAlso take it you've read Fast Food Nation to put you off eating meat? No this one. Fast Food Nation is a great muckraking sort of book. Very interesting. Dominion is certainly educational but also a spiritual exploration. I (we) highly recommend it. Even if it doesn't change your mind - it's good food for thought. (pardon the pun) Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #143 September 3, 2004 No meat ! Does that include guys? ;-)smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
