Jib 0 #51 August 27, 2004 U.S. denounces ‘outrageous pressure’ on Hamm USOC refuses gymnastics federation request to give up gold "The president of the International Gymnastics Federation asked Hamm to give up his all-around gold medal as the ultimate show of good will, but the U.S. Olympic Committee told him to take responsibility for the problem and refused even to deliver the request." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5839534/ -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #52 August 27, 2004 To all of you who say you'd give it back....you're full of shit. That is all. Now time for a weekend of jumpin! Enjoy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #53 August 27, 2004 I don't like Hamm and haven't been impressed with his demeanor in all of this. But asking him to give up his Gold medal is bullshit. Like it or not, the NFL didn't reverse the call the day after the AFC Championship game (Oakland versus New England) a few years ago (actually I think the call on the field was correct but virtually ever Raider fan will say otherwise). Once the officials/judges have made a call, they need to stand by that call regardless of whether or not it was the right call. This whole gymnastics controversy crap this year is starting to set a precedence. You don't like how things worked out? So just whine and bitch until they change it? Bullshit I say. Hamm should keep the Gold (even if mistakes were made). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #54 August 27, 2004 nice intellectual debate there I'm ssoooooo impressed... any more adult commentary you'd like to offer?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #55 August 27, 2004 I guess Hamm's got egg on his face... mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #56 August 27, 2004 are the games between the judges? Hardly.. failures on the part of the judges undermines the competition itself and should be corrected to maintain the integrity of the game... Obvious errors on the part of the judges should be fixed, otherwise the game is about the judges ability and not the ability or performance of the Olympians participating in the events.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #57 August 27, 2004 QuoteU.S. denounces ‘outrageous pressure’ on Hamm "Stop pressing that Hamm!" mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #58 August 27, 2004 Quoteare the games between the judges? Hardly.. failures on the part of the judges undermines the competition itself and should be corrected to maintain the integrity of the game... Obvious errors on the part of the judges should be fixed, otherwise the game is about the judges ability and not the ability or performance of the Olympians participating in the events. Then have the 20 judges sit in a room for 10 minutes reviewing each an every play, performance, pitch, shot, move, etc. in slow motion until they are certain that they are correct and agree on a single score. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #59 August 27, 2004 Quoteare the games between the judges? Hardly.. failures on the part of the judges undermines the competition itself and should be corrected to maintain the integrity of the game... Obvious errors on the part of the judges should be fixed, otherwise the game is about the judges ability and not the ability or performance of the Olympians participating in the events. I agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #60 August 27, 2004 Why don't they just have a Dance Off - like Zoolander.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #61 August 27, 2004 the problem is the issue WAS raised without need for video replay, but the korean coaches were told to wait.... NO NEED FOR VIDEO at all, just proper procedures, obviously if the mistake was caught before hand it should be fixed... no one is going through weeks old tapes for review. It is important that things are judged in real time, and that proper procedures are followed, at this point the FIG are trying to put it all on the athletes when the failure was their own in the first place. "oh yea that thing you mentioned before about the scores?? well it's to late now to file a protest so the scores will stand. We will admit the error and that you pointed it out but we brushed you off....but its not our problem go talk to the IOC..." yea good 'sportsmanship'____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #62 August 27, 2004 QuoteHamm asked to give up his gold medal! - That's the gay guy, right Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #63 August 28, 2004 QuoteThat's the gay guy, right Like that narrows it down... (for all of those without a sense of humor, its a joke).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #64 August 28, 2004 QuoteWhy don't they just have a Dance Off - like Zoolander. I thought that was Starsky and Hutch. Anyway, I'm sure Halliburton is behind the whole scoring fiasco. And you know where that leads...right to the Veeps office. Gonna go check Speakers Corner. I bet there's something posted there.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #65 August 28, 2004 The games are for the benefit of the athletes, not the IOC. IMO Hamm should keep his medal, it wasn't his fault the judges were incompetent, and he wasn't guilty of misconduct. And the IOC should give a gold to the Korean, it wasn't his fault the judges were incompetent either. How much would an extra medal cost anyway. Neither athlete should be penalized because the judges were incompetent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #66 August 28, 2004 QuoteThe games are for the benefit of the athletes, not the IOC. IMO Hamm should keep his medal, it wasn't his fault the judges were incompetent, and he wasn't guilty of misconduct. And the IOC should give a gold to the Korean, it wasn't his fault the judges were incompetent either. How much would an extra medal cost anyway. Neither athlete should be penalized because the judges were incompetent. John, the judges messed up and didn't count a deduction on the Korean's parallel bar routine that would have dropped him out of the medals completely. So, there shouldn't be two golds. I agree with the IOC that the two golds awarded before in Ice Skating was because of malitious intent by the judges. This was just a mistake made by humans. I don't think it's the end of the world. I'm sure the judges feel bad enough.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingJ 0 #67 August 28, 2004 I liked the comparison to instant replay made last night during the interview with Hamm. They compared the appeal process to instant replay in American football. It's there for a reason, if someone doesn't like a call they can appeal and if it turns out they are right action will be taken. However, it has to be done then. In football you can't end the game and the next day look at it again and decide that it was a bad call and protest. Same thing in gymnastics. They have a system in place, it wasn't put to use, and this is the outcome. I think the gymnastics federation people are a bunch of peckerwads. I mean come on! Hamm has said multiple times that he will abide by whatever decision the federation makes, and for them to try and pass it off on him by "requesting" that he give back the medal? WTF!!! Killing threads since 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #68 August 28, 2004 QuoteI liked the comparison to instant replay made last night during the interview with Hamm. They compared the appeal process to instant replay in American football. It's there for a reason, if someone doesn't like a call they can appeal and if it turns out they are right action will be taken. However, it has to be done then. In football you can't end the game and the next day look at it again and decide that it was a bad call and protest. Same thing in gymnastics. They have a system in place, it wasn't put to use, and this is the outcome. it wasnt put to use because an FIG official told the korean team to 'hold' their protest, when it was brought up AT THE TIME. No video replay was required to notice the mistake, but the officials broke their own procedures in putting off the korean coach's protest, till it was 'officially' to late... that's pretty close to fraud on the part of the FIG the group that is trying to pass off the burden of its error.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #69 August 28, 2004 He won. Did he deserve to win? No. But he did. No need to continue to debate it. Sports are chalked full of bad calls. This is what happens when humans judge. Humans make mistakes. It happened this year and will happen again. No question about it. He will keep his medal, the Korean will not get a duplicate gold.....period. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #70 August 28, 2004 Seems the fair way to do this would be, based on the circusmtances, to allow all the competitors to file scoring appeals . This way the injustice to the Korean competitor could be addressed as well as the injustice to the rest of the competitors(failure to properly dock the Korean competitor). -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #71 August 28, 2004 The judges made their decision. The end. Life is not always fair. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #72 August 28, 2004 which is part of the point. The Olympics is not 'life'. It is outside of life, an established game with rules designed to make it 'fair' for all participants. The rules werent followed by the judges, and the mistake should be corrected..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #73 August 28, 2004 Quotemake it 'fair' for all participants. No such thing as fair in anything. The judges spoke. The Korean gets the Bronze. That's the way it is and that's the way it will be. Period. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #74 August 28, 2004 Quotewhich is part of the point. The Olympics is not 'life'. It is outside of life, an established game with rules designed to make it 'fair' for all participants. The rules werent followed by the judges, and the mistake should be corrected.. But what are the limits of the correction? How can you award a .1 for a technical mistake and at the same time not deduct .2 for another counting mistake? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #75 August 28, 2004 one of them had to have video review to be seen, it was missed by the entire panel, the other mistake was 'caught' but told to wait..... if it had been addressed properly when it was first noticed this would be a non-story and the Korean would have won.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
