Student, 12 jumps, 1 cutaway

[danielcroft 2]

Same people, yes. They were free falling in front of me yes. They were higher than I was. I was between them and the DZ. I didn't wait around to see them pull. I just rear risered away before it might become an issue. I know I'm a student and probably don't have the experience to say if it was totally safe but they seemed far enough away that I never felt there was an issue. I thought there may have been a potential issue so I turned before it could become one. If I'd stayed on the same course, done my steerability check & chest strap, etc. I may have ended up in the same air space as them. The fact that they were in front of me tells me that I was flying down the jump run line which I really shouldn't be doing anyway - that's one of the things I'm trying to learn right now. :)

Main point is that if I see people freefalling in front of me, I think I'm better off making a small correction prior to any issue arising.

[DougH 270]

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Main point is that if I see people freefalling in front of me, I think I'm better off making a small correction prior to any issue arising.

It is allways a good idea to turn 90' degrees from jump run after opening, do this if you see people or if you do not. It is never a good idea to be flying up or down the line of flight under canopy, good for you for realizing this on your own at 12 jumps.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[danielcroft 2]

Thanks Doug.

The problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing the jump run line when I'm trying to spot so I don't know where to turn to get off it. That's not good I know but like I said, I'm trying to learn to do that right now. I'm good at picking out my local DZ but for some reason figuring out the land marks to know which way the plane is going is tough for me. I should be tracking off the jump run anyway but both tracking & the canopy ride being off the line depend on me knowing where the line is in the first place. I'm talking to my coaches about it and they keep telling me (basically) that it's just practice. Any tips would be welcome. :)

My understanding is that you're looking for some landmarks on the flight line (movie reference!) so that I know which direction to turn. Maybe I could just pick something straight out the door of the plane, I guess that makes sense... hmmm, I must try that next time. :)

[dragon2 2]

You should be able to tell the jumprun direction when you're on the ground. You know your landing direction when you're on the ground right? At most dz's the jumprun is against the ground wind direction or against the upper wind direction, depending on strength. Some dz's have a fixed jumprun direction due to hazards (ie, Empuria always drops inland), some drop perpendicular with the wind (always or sometimes) to give everybode a chance to make it back.
Ask which it (usually) is for your DZ then get an instructor to help you figure out jumprun from on the ground. If you have a big areal photo point it out on there and try to find landmarks in relation to the jumprun direction, ie, jumprun today is along the runway or is north-south same as the highway further away or is from the hangar to that big farm, etc.
Is the landing zone close to where you pack, ie can you see the plane dropping usually? That also helps to see if you were right

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[danielcroft 2]

Thanks dragon2.

I'll have a talk to my instructor/coach about what you've said. This & spotting are a couple of skills that I really need to work on. Thanks again.

Yeah, we can see the jump run normally but not always. Depends on the winds.

[Baksteen 84]

Sounds stupid - but in combination with the thorough briefing at manifest, google maps worked like a charm for me.

EDIT: Once in the door you can verify the direction of jumprun by choosing a landmark and turning towards that after opening.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[dharma1976 0]

Dan,

last I checked there are no pilots in the student program whatsoever...

I think there are only Navigators

Dave

edit to change to navigators I get manta stuck in my head cause of the swooping manta of scott miller

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[danielcroft 2]

Yeah, Jerm says they're all navigators now. So not pilots. :)

[pilotdave 0]

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You should be able to tell the jumprun direction when you're on the ground.

Should be able to... if the jump run is consistent. Only been to that DZ twice, but I don't think I've ever seen such inconsistent jump runs and bad spots. People landed off on just about every load I saw. Don't know why it happens, but I've never seen so many off landings anywhere else...

BTW to danielcroft... unless there was more than one reserve ride last weekend, I saw your landing. Nice job!

Dave

[dragon2 2]

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You should be able to tell the jumprun direction when you're on the ground.

Should be able to... if the jump run is consistent. Only been to that DZ twice, but I don't think I've ever seen such inconsistent jump runs and bad spots. People landed off on just about every load I saw. Don't know why it happens, but I've never seen so many off landings anywhere else...

Hmm.... Sounds like a good reason for at least SOMEONE to learn how to spot Even if you have to learn it on the 'net

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DougH 270]

GREEEEEEEEEEEEN LIGHT GREEEEEEEEEEEEEN LIGHT.... JUMP JUMP JUMP GOOOOOOO GET OUT.... GREEEEEEN LIGHT GET OUT.... GOOOOOOOO.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[dragon2 2]

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GREEEEEEEEEEEEN LIGHT GREEEEEEEEEEEEEN LIGHT.... JUMP JUMP JUMP GOOOOOOO GET OUT.... GREEEEEEN LIGHT GET OUT.... GOOOOOOOO.

Unfortunately that's often true

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[yamtx73 0]

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GREEEEEEEEEEEEN LIGHT GREEEEEEEEEEEEEN LIGHT.... JUMP JUMP JUMP GOOOOOOO GET OUT.... GREEEEEEN LIGHT GET OUT.... GOOOOOOOO.

For some reason "Look before you leap" comes to mind right about now.... FWIW, I always look when I get to the door...

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[dugout 0]

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I wait what seems like seconds without anything seeming to happen (I checked that my RSL was attached before I put the rig on) and then pull the reserve

Daniel;

Did you or your rigger look into why the RSL malfunctioned?

[Chubba 0]

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As for the stable altitude comments, what kind of exits are you doing to be stable in 3 seconds and what do you mean stable. Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology but what I mean is that I'm in a normal free fall and off "the hill" totally stable and looking at my alti for the first time at like 12/12.5. I spoke to one of my coaches who said that I'm stable right away. I'm not flipping or twisting or anything silly like that. For the record, I've been doing diving exits and am now pretty good at those & will be moving on to floating exits (which kind of scare me for some stupid reason).

I consider myself stable when I'm on my belly and staying on my belly no matter what... regardless of whether it's sub-terminal, still on the hill etc.

Have you done your hop and pop yet? I typically do a 3-4 second delay (dive exit)... you can't leave 10+ seconds to reach full terminal when you're jumping from 3500ft.

[billvon 2,990]

>It is allways a good idea to turn 90' degrees from jump run after opening . . .

Just a note about this -

This is a good idea when jumping solo, but it is NOT a good idea when jumping with other people. Your #1 priority after opening should be to continue to fly straight away from the center of the formation to avoid a collision with other people in your group. They are always a greater risk to you than someone in a different group.

[rwieder 0]

Wow! 12 jumps and an assortment of canopies? To progress into jumping another canopy you must first master the one your flying. Since you new, i'm certain it's due to no fault of your own I've seen self induce line twists at below 1,000 AGL more than once. Each time i debriefed the student and explained that what happened to them was self induced and too low into the final landing sequence, I also advised them nothing fancy in the landing pattern. "Plan your dive, dive your plan!" Good Luck, Be Safe.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[pilotdave 0]

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Hmm.... Sounds like a good reason for at least SOMEONE to learn how to spot

My first jump at the DZ, my team, which would be exiting first, was standing at the boarding area watching the first group from the previous load land way off. One of the people on my team explained to the tandem instructors that we would not be getting out where those people got out. We'd be getting out over the treeline, regardless of where the green light comes on. They were happy with that. No problem, no yelling in the door.

Done 39 jumps there now (over 4 jumping days)... haven't landed off yet. Also haven't climbed out on the green light yet.
Dave

[danielcroft 2]

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Daniel;

Did you or your rigger look into why the RSL malfunctioned?

I was told that due to my malfunction being somewhat low speed the reserve doesn't inflate very quickly. There was, at least as far as I know, no issues with the rig.

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I consider myself stable when I'm on my belly and staying on my belly no matter what... regardless of whether it's sub-terminal, still on the hill etc.

Have you done your hop and pop yet? I typically do a 3-4 second delay (dive exit)... you can't leave 10+ seconds to reach full terminal when you're jumping from 3500ft.

By that definition then I'm stable right out the door, I do need to bend my legs a little more at times but otherwise I'm good right away. I certainly don't plan on waiting that long on a hop and pop (haven't done it yet), I don't need to look at my altimeter, I just need to count & throw. Same with EP unless I'm below my hard deck (count & reserve). I think the distinction I was making was that I first check my alti at around that height.

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Wow! 12 jumps and an assortment of canopies? To progress into jumping another canopy you must first master the one your flying. Since you new, i'm certain it's due to no fault of your own I've seen self induce line twists at below 1,000 AGL more than once. Each time i debriefed the student and explained that what happened to them was self induced and too low into the final landing sequence, I also advised them nothing fancy in the landing pattern. "Plan your dive, dive your plan!" Good Luck, Be Safe.

Fortunately, I was playing around high enough that I had plenty of time to look at the issue and cut away at approximately my hard deck. I've talked to several other people at the DZ (was there this afternoon) and have received some good advice. I will be going to the practice rig and working on my EPs either tomorrow or Saturday as I think I need to work on them.

You guys really ought to try to be a little more respectful of each other, we're all on the same team you know?

[Bill_K 0]

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>It is allways a good idea to turn 90' degrees from jump run after opening . . .

Just a note about this -

This is a good idea when jumping solo, but it is NOT a good idea when jumping with other people. Your #1 priority after opening should be to continue to fly straight away from the center of the formation to avoid a collision with other people in your group. They are always a greater risk to you than someone in a different group.

I sure am glad you are on here and posting Bill. I was thinking it as I was reading down and about to post something and then I saw your post... anyway, thanks for the time you put in on these boards!!

BK

[enjoi 0]

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What I've seen many rookies do is get used to spiraling aggressive on student canopies, and then when they transition to "non-student" canopies spiral like they were used to and spin themselves into twists.

Yep, I did exactly that at jump 40 or so after I came off student gear to a 170. Luckily I let the toggle up just in time to avoid linetwists, but I think another half second would of done it. Had no idea it could even happen until then.