gjhdiver 0 #76 August 12, 2004 Quote if it makes you feel better to consume life that you don’t personify (ie has a face) and therefore empathize with less, that is well and good, but i have little use for those who condemn anyone else for their food choices...because you empathize more strongly with those lower on the food chain does not mean you are ‘more advanced or more enlightened’ I hope you're not suggesting that I am somehow militant in my stance towards my eating habits, as nothing in my post should have given that impression. I really don't care what other people eat, though they constantly seem to want me to justify my not eating meat for some reason. I also agree that it's possible to have a healthy diet that includes meat, but to be honest, for the effort required to ensure that you can trace your meat back to a healthy source, it's easier just to go vegetarian, at least for me. I live in Berkeley, the macrobiotic capital of the USA it seems. I'm more than well served for a healthy meat free diet. Now, when I was living in Z Hills, that's a different deal. There's only so much salad bar you can tolerate. By the way, I'm not anthropomorhphising animals with the face comment. It just seems to be the easiest way to explain why I eat certain seafood to people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shydi 0 #77 August 12, 2004 That sounds like something my cousin would say... GO MEAT!!!!!!!!! Dianna PMS#223 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pia 0 #78 August 12, 2004 I like meat, but not that kinda meat **Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exwhuffo 0 #79 August 13, 2004 Plants are living things aswell. Millions more vegetables are murdered every year than animals. They are sprayed by all those chemicals.not to mention the poor fruits. i hope that whipped cream tastes good with their reproductive oragans! all life is sacred, what a load of vegetarian crap i says! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #80 August 13, 2004 For the most part...yes. When I see visible LARD or bite into grissley pieces, I want to freakin hurl. I don't do pork or fatty beef (Don't read into that) _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #81 August 13, 2004 I tried to be a vegetarian for a few years thinking it was a much healthy life style. I was doing great for about a year and then I started to feel real fatigue and very weak. It just wasn't for me. I was traveling to much and it was hard to eat the foods I needed. So I slowly went back to eating some meats. Now I only eat fish and chicken. Every now and then red meats but not that often. TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pia 0 #82 August 13, 2004 QuoteNo. I have canines. I'm an ominivore. t 1) Meat-eaters: have claws Herbivores: no claws Humans: no claws 2) Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue Herbivores: perspire through skin pores Humans: perspire through skin pores 3) Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding 4) Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length. Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length. 5) Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater 6) Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits. Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits 7) Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains**Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #83 August 13, 2004 So, there's no such thing as an omnivore? And is there any material distinction between graminivores and other herbivores? Because not all herbivores eat grass or grains. Finally, I would like to add two numbers to the list: 8) Meat-eaters: have one stomach, and swallow their food only once if possible. Herbivores: have multiple stomachs, and regurgitate or shift food between stomachs for multiple passes of digestion. 9) Meat-eaters: have forward-facing stereoscopic eyes, better-developed intelligence, and other characteristics to help them catch and eat other animals that may fight or run away. Herbivores: have sideways-facing or top-facing omniscopic eyes and other characteristics that help them run away from animals that may try to eat them. (And have just enough intelligence to sneak up on vegetables.) -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soilman 0 #84 August 13, 2004 According to what I've read, a while ago, I think n National Geographic: Giant Pandas: have digestive systems that resemble those that many carnivores have. Giant Pandas: observed in nature to eat one species of bamboo and apparently nothing else. Giant Pandas in captivity: Getting them to survive on anything else but the one species of bamboo that they eat is difficult, if not impossible. Feed them almost anything else, and they get sick. Feed them meat and they get sick. An organisms natural diet may perhaps be better determined by observing what it eats in nature, rather than by obseving the anatomy and physiology of its digestive tract. Humans appear to be able to grow, develop, and live, on a wide variety of food, a much larger variety than any othe animal. At the same time, different humans in different places and time have thrived on very different diets, including diets that are rather limited in scope.____________________________________ Animal husbandry may not be necessary. We can maintain soil quality, for plant husbandry, with green manures and cover crops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pia 0 #85 August 13, 2004 Too true **Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surfers98 0 #86 August 13, 2004 Always an interesting convo... For me, veggie. However, I have been known to enjoy seafood I catch and/or gather myself. My reasons: MANKIND'S CURRENT LEVEL OF MEAT CONSUMPTION IS TOTALLY UNSUSTAINABLE. (If you don't know what sustainability is, do a little research, you may just learn something about yourself and the world around you). The earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. PS - No, I'm not a hippie in the slightest, I've just begun taking small steps to not live quite so selfishly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pia 0 #87 August 13, 2004 Also, Human beings and herbivorous animals have little mouths in relation to their heads, carnivores have big mouths, better for killing prey. Other similarities between human beings and herbivores. Both get vitamin C from their diets, carnivores dont, they make it internally. Herbivores and humans sip water, not lap it up with their tongues like carnivores. I think we obviously are not carnivores, but we are equally obviously not only vegetarians. We have longer intestines than carnivores, but not as long as herbivores. As u mentioned we dont possess multiple stomachs like herbivores, nor do we chew cud. Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder.. omnivores. Evolution.. **Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #88 August 14, 2004 Quoteand why are you one or the other? I surprised that nobody has pointed out that vegetarians taste better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #89 August 14, 2004 Again, you're ignoring omnivores...how do we compare? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pia 0 #90 August 14, 2004 Here's a comparison I found.. Facial Muscles Carnivore - Reduced to allow wide mouth gape Herbivore - Well-developed Omnivore - Reduced Human - Well-developed Jaw Type Carnivore - Angle not expanded Herbivore - Expanded angle Omnivore - Angle not expanded Human - Expanded angle Jaw Joint Location Carnivore - On same plane as molar teeth Herbivore - Above the plane of the molars Omnivore - On same plane as molar teeth Human - Above the plane of the molars Jaw Motion Carnivore - Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion Herbivore - No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back Omnivore - Shearing; minimal side-to-side Human - No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back Major Jaw Muscles Carnivore - Temporalis Herbivore - Masseter and pterygoids Omnivore - Temporalis Human - Masseter and pterygoids Mouth Opening vs. Head Size Carnivore - Large Herbivore - Small Omnivore - Large Human - Small Teeth (Incisors) Carnivore - Short and pointed Herbivore - Broad, flattened and spade shaped Omnivore - Short and pointed Human - Broad, flattened and spade shaped Teeth (Canines) Carnivore - Long, sharp and curved Herbivore - Dull and short or long (for defense), or none Omnivore - Long, sharp and curved Human - Short and blunted Teeth (Molars) Carnivore - Sharp, jagged and blade shaped Herbivore - Flattened with cusps vs complex surface Omnivore - Sharp blades and/or flattened Human - Flattened with nodular cusps Chewing Carnivore - None; swallows food whole Herbivore - Extensive chewing necessary Omnivore - Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing Human - Extensive chewing necessary Saliva Carnivore - No digestive enzymes Herbivore - Carbohydrate digesting enzymes Omnivore - No digestive enzymes Human - Carbohydrate digesting enzymes Stomach Type Carnivore - Simple Herbivore - Simple or multiple chambers Omnivore - Simple Human - Simple Stomach Acidity Carnivore - Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach Herbivore - pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach Omnivore - Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach Human - pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach Stomach Capacity Carnivore - 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract Herbivore - Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract Omnivore - 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract Human - 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract Length of Small Intestine Carnivore - 3 to 6 times body length Herbivore - 10 to more than 12 times body length Omnivore - 4 to 6 times body length Human - 10 to 11 times body length Colon Carnivore - Simple, short and smooth Herbivore - Long, complex; may be sacculated Omnivore - Simple, short and smooth Human - Long, sacculated Liver Carnivore - Can detoxify vitamin A Herbivore - Cannot detoxify vitamin A Omnivore - Can detoxify vitamin A Human - Cannot detoxify vitamin A Kidney Carnivore - Extremely concentrated urine Herbivore - Moderately concentrated urine Omnivore - Extremely concentrated urine Human - Moderately concentrated urine Nails Carnivore - Sharp claws Herbivore - Flattened nails or blunt hooves Omnivore - Sharp claws Human - Flattened nails**Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samhussey 0 #91 August 14, 2004 I did it once to see if I could. I set myself a goal of 6months sin carne. Turned out it was pretty easy, but I saw no reason to carry on with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
