RW organizing sucked on the Summerfest

[Vallerina 2]

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Make sure to get it on video if he pisses on himself.

I could just show you mine....

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Val, As I have seen, SDC has so many "kick ass" freeflyers... I'm sure Missy and Rook could find somebody to organize those small freefly loads while they could put together some medium or small RWs.

My opinion differs. They were both incredibly busy organizing and coaching.

I agree with you that they could improve the way the rw stuff was organized, but I do not agree with you that Missy or Rook should've organized the belly stuff. That would've been silly.

Now, let's talk about WB peeing his pants....

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Remster 30]

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Now, let's talk about WB peeing his pants....

I think I'd rather you talk about his ass then hear about your watersport adventures....

Remster

[gemini 0]

A year or so ago during a freefly boogie, I was in the loading tent at Spaceland. Missy walked up and asked who I was jumping with. "Solo" I said. She said "No, you're jumping with me". "I only RW" I countered. "That's ok, how fast can you fall?" she replied.

It was really a fun jump and amazing to watch what a freeflier can do around a belly flyer. I've since had the opportunity to jump with Missy on several hybrids and they were some of the best I've been on.

I agree, if you get a chance to jump with a champion take it!

See you Wednesday at SDC and the 6th in Rantoul.

Blues,

Blue skies,

Jim

[towerrat 0]

. I thought he was just some loud red haired guy that liked to kinda take over things.
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he is

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[WFFC 1]

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You are responsible for having your own fun, you can't expect someone to seek you out specifically to find out what you want to do; you have to go up to them.

This is true. But, the end user was looking for assistance on finding said fun. Wanted to be directed to the advertised specials. Simple request. Approached the owners and they didn't help him at all. Even though they were busy, they need to take the time to take care of business. You're never to busy to take care of the customer right? If they couldn't have helped him, they should have passed him off to another staffer (e.g. read 'follow me, hello fellow staffer, please take care of this guy') Had this happened, we probably wouldn't be discussing this.

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People at SDC are very nice and will help you out, but you have to ASK THEM. It does seem strange that missy and rook didn't point out other low-timers... I'll chalk that up to the fact that they were busy.

Personal experience on this dictates to me that this isn't a true statement at all. Had it not been for Tish, someone who I had met many moons ago at the WFFC, I would have chalked up my experience as a total disaster and waste of time. Larger DZs can be very cliquey. Someone who is new or visiting a larger DZ (this experience is not limited to SDC) can be left in the dust. If the customer asks for something, don't brush them off, as appears to have happened in this case. Find them the answer or worst case, put them with some of the jumpers that are there having fun.
We're all in this together aren't we?

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~~~Michael

[jlmiracle 7]

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I agree with you that they could improve the way the rw stuff was organized, but I do not agree with you that Missy or Rook should've organized the belly stuff. That would've been silly.

Why? We have, when needed, pulled a freeflyer (and I'm not taking joe shmo freeflyer) to "organize" a RW load or just make and RW coaching jump. We do what we have to do to make things happen.

I recently drove 7 hours to a boogie and guess what, the organizer that was scheduled to be there couldn't make it. Luckily there was no registration fee and we were warned prior to going that it is basically a "team" dz, so bring your own group to jump with.

I think we can all learn from experiences like this, those who organize boogies and those that attend. It is important to know what the customers wants, and to be upfront with them on the front end and have a back up plan if people (organizers) cancel.

and as far as him not wanting to freefly - not everyone wants to, Some people don't have gear that is freefly friendly, or just doesn't care much for that discipline.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[kallend 2,026]

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IF I DON'T CARE ABOUT FREEFLYING THAN THIS OPPORTUNITY DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING FOR ME...

Wow! Really?! I don't do RW, but if someone from Airspeed walked up and said 'hey, want to go do a 4 way with us?' I'd probably piss myself.

Where some people see setbacks, others see opportunities.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Dougiefresh 0]

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Larger DZs can be very cliquey. Someone who is new or visiting a larger DZ (this experience is not limited to SDC) can be left in the dust. If the customer asks for something, don't brush them off, as appears to have happened in this case. Find them the answer or worst case, put them with some of the jumpers that are there having fun.
We're all in this together aren't we?

That was my exact point. When you're around superstars, you have to find it in yourself to bash through the clique-ness and go ask them for a jump. Not easy, but what in skydiving is?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[Vallerina 2]

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to "organize" a RW load or just make and RW coaching jump.

Okay, but if they would've done that, there would've been a lack of organizers for the freefliers....I wouldn't have gotten to jump with Rook, Missy and Amy as advertised.....

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[jlmiracle 7]

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Okay, but if they would've done that, there would've been a lack of organizers for the freefliers....I wouldn't have gotten to jump with Rook, Missy and Amy as advertised.....

So this guy gets screwed instead. Sounds reasonable.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Ron 10]

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You can't miss Billy Weber either.

You can if you don't know who he is...

And he did say he asked Rook and Missy about RW organizing...You would think they would have pointed him out then.

If I went to a boogie that advertised LO's for ALL levels and I could not find one at the level I wanted...I would be upset.

If I asked and was offered to jump with a World Champ in a disapline that I don't like/don't do I would not find that much of a comfort or concession.

They advertised LOs for all levels and it SEEMS they did not provide that. If they DID provide it it SEEMs like it was not well known...Maybe even by the DZO's.

The CASA not flying...Well I can totally understand that. It did fly, just not as much as he may like...Oh well.

What was the 30.00 registration for?

Points to improve:
If you say you will have LO's for all levels....Have them. And make them EASY to see/find. Booths like at the WFFC and hats, or really UGLY shirts like at Zhills.

BTW having a bunch of locals willing to jump with a guy if he makes it happen is NOT having an LO.

An LO should be EASY to find.

I was a LO at the WFFC in 96. We had anouncements of when to meet at the tent. Andat Zhills we used to make announcements at the 20 min call to meet in front of manifest. Today we collect tickets and EVERYONE knows who the LO's are and if you ask you get taken to one.

Sounds like they didn't have a good plan....Knowing the Nelsons..I would bet that changes next year.

I love to hear people bitching...I would rather they bring a problem up so it can be solved rather than stew about it, and talk bad about the incident for years.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Vallerina 2]

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So this guy get screwed instead. Sounds reasonable.

So...he gets screwed and doesn't get organized jumps or other freefliers get screwed and don't get organized jumps. Someone was going to get screwed either way.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[jlmiracle 7]

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So this guy get screwed instead. Sounds reasonable.

So...he gets screwed and doesn't get organized jumps or other freefliers get screwed and don't get organized jumps. Someone was going to get screwed either way.

You listed 3 freefly organizers and only 1 RW organizer has been listed in this thread. I think 1 organized jump with the guy wouldn't have hurt ALL the freefly jumps you got to make with Rook, Missy, and Amy. It should have been handled differently.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Vallerina 2]

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You listed 3 freefly organizers and only 1 RW organizer has been listed in this thread.

There are other rw organizers...there were also quite a few more freefliers...hence a need for more freefly organizers.

Actually, all he had to do was come and ask me to jump if he didn't have anyone to jump with...we're from the same dz.....I belly fly....

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[kallend 2,026]

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So this guy get screwed instead. Sounds reasonable.

So...he gets screwed and doesn't get organized jumps or other freefliers get screwed and don't get organized jumps. Someone was going to get screwed either way.

You listed 3 freefly organizers and only 1 RW organizer has been listed in this thread. I think 1 organized jump with the guy wouldn't have hurt ALL the freefly jumps you got to make with Rook, Missy, and Amy. It should have been handled differently.

Judy

No - there were 2 organizers for the big ways and on Saturday morning 2 low time organizers too. Saturday afternoon there was one low timer organizer.

On Sunday there was one low timer organizer, but he got hurt around midday when someone hit him in freefall.

I think the entire problem would have been solved by the tee-shirt solution.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[robertsa 0]

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Actually, all he had to do was come and ask me to jump if he didn't have anyone to jump with...we're from the same dz.....I belly fly....

Thanks for the invitation Val :-)
If you are going to be at the WFFC I will ask you for a jump with me... so I can make up for the Summerfest :-))))

[Ron 10]

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Actually, all he had to do was come and ask me to jump if he didn't have anyone to jump with...we're from the same dz.....I belly fly....

YOU are not an organizer. He went to a boogie that said it had organizers...He seems not to have gotten what he wanted or what he thought he was told he would get.

If you go to a boogie and your buddies start jumping together..thats not an organizer you could do that at home.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Vallerina 2]

#1 Robert admitted that there was someone organizing smaller ways. He was unable to organize them on Sunday due to unforseen events. That's called "life."
#2 Everyone admits that the rw organizing could've been handled better and the organizers could've worn t-shirts or something.
#3 He didn't have to not have a good time. I understand that it's easier for some people like me who are extremely outgoing to find people/organizers/coaches to jump with. I could've jumped with him myself, or I could've introduced him to people to jump with. He knows who I am. We are from the same dz. Sometimes, it takes a little work to have a lot of fun. It is easier to get lost in the shuffle at a huge dz. Yes, I'm sure his comments are appreciated because that's a great way for a dz to improve (feedback), but there's no reason he shouldn't have had fun.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Ron 10]

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#1 Robert admitted that there was someone organizing smaller ways. He was unable to organize them on Sunday due to unforseen events. That's called "life."

The DZ said they would have organizers for all skill levels..they didn't. While they may have lost the organizer to "life" they still did not have one.

People gave suggestions on how they could have made that happen..:

a. they could have had a FF organizer do some belly jumps.
b. They could have given a free slot to someone like yourself, or Kallend, or Bo, or any number of other jumpers and made them the LO for the day.

The fact is they didn't have one...And it seems from the posts that no one cared about that.

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#2 Everyone admits that the rw organizing could've been handled better and the organizers could've worn t-shirts or something.

Yep, so whats wrong with him bringing it up? If no one ever complains then no one knows there is a problem.

I like to hear both good and bad about an event I run...In fact at my last tunnel camp I would not release them till they had both a positive and are of improvment comment about both themselves AND the camp.

I have no doubt that next year the LO situation will be better handled.

It also seems to me that the focus of this event was free flying....Good information to have if you don't like freeflying.

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#3 He didn't have to not have a good time. I understand that it's easier for some people like me who are extremely outgoing to find people/organizers/coaches to jump with. I could've jumped with him myself, or I could've introduced him to people to jump with. He knows who I am. We are from the same dz. Sometimes, it takes a little work to have a lot of fun. It is easier to get lost in the shuffle at a huge dz. Yes, I'm sure his comments are appreciated because that's a great way for a dz to improve (feedback), but there's no reason he shouldn't have had fun.

He went to an event that had LO's so he would not HAVE to do all that. If he wanted to do all the work himself he could have stayed at this home DZ. He didn't have fun because he went to an event that had somehtings that were promissed that they didn't deliver.

I am sure there are REASONS and I am also sure that Missy and Rook will fix it now that they know about it.

But the fact is they didn't deliver this time.

Now I would be interested to see if this was his first boogie and maybe he had higher than realistic expectations...

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Vallerina 2]

Geeze, Ron....I'm not saying he shouldn't have brought it up. Must you argue about everything?

He should have brought it up. That's how the dz can improve. Unfortunately, things happen in life and not everybody gets what they want.

No, the focus wasn't freeflying. There were tons of belly fliers. Most of them were doing the big way because that's what most of them were going there for. Had I done any rw while I was there, I would've opted to get on the big-ways because I can do small-ways at home, but I can't do two-plane shots at home.

I agree that he should've brought it up. I don't agree that the freefliers should've been organizing rw loads (you already aren't going to please everybody. Missy and Rook's strongest skills are freeflying, hence jumpers can gain more from them by freeflying with them.)

And, no, there's no reason he shouldn't have had a good time or jumped on his belly with others that he can learn something from. While this may not be true for someone who didn't know anyone there at all, he knew quite a few people there, and he didn't bother to ask us for advice.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Ron 10]

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Geeze, Ron....I'm not saying he shouldn't have brought it up

You are denfeing the DZ and slamming him for not having a good time. Saying it is his fault when it is clear the DZ did not live up to the Ads.

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Must you argue about everything?

You are the one that keeps bringing up how you think its HIS fault he went to a boogie that didn't have what they said they would have and you are saying it's his fault he didn't have a good time.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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The fact is they didn't have one...And it seems from the posts that no one cared about that.

I can tell you first hand that isn't true.

Mistakes happen at all boogies, they can sometimes be fixed on the spot or corrected so they don't happen again next year. I've helped organize three boogies and they are very stressful things to put together. I can only imagine how hard a 10 day boogie is to organize. I worked at the first Summerfest on the ground crew - it's a complicated event to run even when everything is happening as planned.

I'm pretty certain the points in these posts have made it to the right people and they are working on it.

I think this thread has hit it's logical and argumentative end.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Vallerina 2]

I hope that one day you'll understand....

No, I didn't defend them. I said that it stink that things didn't work out. But, I also understand that not everything goes according to plan.

How come you aren't attacking him for saying that there were no organizers except for the ones doing the big-ways? That's a lie. There were people organizing smaller ways. Heck...even on my last load of the day on Sunday I saw an extremely experienced skydiver jumping with a 5-way.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[jlmiracle 7]

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How come you aren't attacking him for saying that there were no organizers except for the ones doing the big-ways? That's a lie. There were people organizing smaller ways. .

If they really had ALOT of RW organizers why didn't Rook point that out to him when he was asked? I would assume Rook would know who is organizing and who isn't.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Vallerina 2]

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If they really had ALOT of RW organizers

I didn't say they had a lot.

I don't know why Rook did/didn't do something. Maybe he thought that people like Sky were jumping with the big-ways when he wasn't for half of a day....

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning