WrongWay 0 #26 July 7, 2004 Quote a "Hoe" is still a "Hoe". Girls who behave as you describe at a frat party, or girls with multiple sexual partners are still looked down upon and labeled as sluts, even by the guys who enjoy them! That's exactly my point. Many of these girls only become part of a family by "accident", so the love that there should be between she and her man is not present, resulting in boredom and infidelity. It could be the same with guys. He hooks up with a girl, she gets pregnant, he marries her for social or family reasons, then they never really connect and BOOM, you have a bad relationship in a family, with infidelities on both sides. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #27 July 7, 2004 QuoteIf you don't want to be in a committed relationship don't get in one it's that easy. I so agree there. I hate a guy who can date me and be all wonderful with me one minute then can be with someone else and be all wonderful with them with days or even hours of the two. All the while not being honest really with either person. HUM, guess that makes him a man hoe. Just calling it as I see it. As for the quote I made from the song it seems guys are getting offended that females are becoming more open about sex. Again just my take and opinion. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #28 July 7, 2004 Ok, so if the new defintion for relationship doesn't require sexual fidelity, is there enough left? A responsible adult, has a decent job, loves you for who you are, is a good mother and raises healthy kids. Male needs. Does that make him inadequate? How much effort does he into the relationship if he feels insecure? Is she going to leave me for another guy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #29 July 7, 2004 Quote Also, there were plenty of guys that I've kissed who have came out and told me, "I'm not going to have sex with you." (Yes, I believed them since they were over at my place and left.) Maybe they just knew your reputation too well Val. Just kiddin, the slam was there so I had to take it.....buh dum ching!! So anyway, yes you're right, I'm sure there are lots of guys who would turn that down, just as there are lots of women. It really does depend on the person. What I'm trying to say is it's just much more common and acceptable to do such a thing than it was ten years ago. Another thing to consider is first dates.....I can't tell you how many girls I have met that have sex with guys on the first date, then whine to their friends that they can't get guys to stick around for a relationship. Guys who are made to wait respect and trust the girl more in the end, resulting in a better chance of having a healthy relationship. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #30 July 7, 2004 I read a study once on why men tend to be more protective and less forgiving about cheating. The study said if you went back in time the reason men were more protecting/jealous, and less forgiving was because a woman always knows that if she gets pregnant she knows 100% that the child is hers. A man on the other hand does not know and no one wanted to get caught raising someone else’s child. Offcourse times have changed, but it seemed like a good explanation as to why we are the way we are.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #31 July 7, 2004 QuoteOk, so if the new defintion for relationship doesn't require sexual fidelity, is there enough left? It does require sexual fidelity. If that isn't there, then what makes the other person in the relationship different from everyone else? I personally would not date a girl who went around flaunting herself because of one question. "If everybody else gets it, what makes me special?" QuoteA responsible adult, has a decent job, loves you for who you are, is a good mother and raises healthy kids. A person can be successful and love their kids, but that doesn't mean they will automatically love their SO's. If she loves you for who you are, the least she can do is be faithful. Quote Male needs. Does that make him inadequate? How much effort does he into the relationship if he feels insecure? Is she going to leave me for another guy? If he's inadequate, she shouldn't have married him. If one person feels insecure and is thinking "will he/she leave me for another?" then there is most likely good reason for it, namely the other person's infidelity or another similar reason caused by the other person. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #32 July 7, 2004 It comes down to the fact that humans aren't supposed to mate for life. Sure, it was fine when the life expectancy was like 25. But it's unrealistic to believe that you will remain attracted and commited to the same single person for decades. The best chance anyone has of staying married for life is to die young. I've never cheated on a gf and don't think I would. But I have broken off long term relationships because I wanted something new. I never want kids so I have no reason to get married. The only useful purpose to marriage that I see is to provide a stable environment for children to be raised in. Take that out of the equation and what's the point? Only thing marriage does (besides legal benefits) is try to force you to stay together. Why put up artificial impediments to happiness? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #33 July 7, 2004 QuoteMaybe they just knew your reputation too well Val. That could be! That means they knew starting out that the chances of going beyond kissing were slim! Quote can't tell you how many girls I have met that have sex with guys on the first date, then whine to their friends that they can't get guys to stick around for a relationship. I've heard guys whine about the same. Maybe it's because I went to a college where it was 65% male, so many women felt that they had to take advantage of every opportunity that passed their way...I don't really know. I haven't seen an overwhelming amount of the stereotypical men/women quirks in relationships/make-outs.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #34 July 7, 2004 QuoteAlso, there were plenty of guys that I've kissed who have came out and told me, "I'm not going to have sex with you." Stop kissing gay guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #35 July 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteAlso, there were plenty of guys that I've kissed who have came out and told me, "I'm not going to have sex with you." Stop kissing gay guys. I only did that once!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #36 July 7, 2004 QuoteAs for guys, some men are just assholes, plain and simple. Don't leave the girls off the hook... imo, a girl who cheats is an asshole too JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #37 July 7, 2004 QuoteThe only useful purpose to marriage that I see is to provide a stable environment for children to be raised in. Take that out of the equation and what's the point? Only thing marriage does (besides legal benefits) is try to force you to stay together. Why put up artificial impediments to happiness? I so agree with you here. Even the legal benefits are slipping away.________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymut 0 #38 July 7, 2004 QuoteI doubt she will be married soon because it is "all about me". There is no compromise on any issue. No guy seems any more special than another. That one statement, 'it's all about me', I think is the biggest problem with society in general. Everyone thinks about themselves first, and others as a passing thought. A successful and (generally) happy marriage REQUIRES considering the emotional well-being of the OTHER person FIRST. You cannot have two selfish people in a relationship. Well, you can, but it won't last long...even if it does last long, it won't be a happy relationship. If you can't handle putting someone before yourself, then DON'T get married and don't try committment. Matt A well-informed person is somebody who has the same views and opinions as yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #39 July 7, 2004 QuoteBut it's unrealistic to believe that you will remain attracted and commited to the same single person for decades. Where does this belief stem from?!! It truely pisses me off to read this! I have members of my family who have been married 50+ years - why is that? Was marriage easier 50 years ago? My parents have been married for 29 years - was it easier for them than the relationship my husband and I are starting? NO! Pure and simple. IF YOU WANT SOMETHING TO WORK - YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT! Just like anything else, it takes work, compromise and honesty. Fuck those petty excuses like "we're not supposed to be together for 80 years". Why the hell not? You've spent 20 years with someone... why not spend the next 20, 30, 40 forever with them? Something attracted you to them in the first place! This is such a selfish attitude! Its that same attitude that breeds kids going to school with guns - parents are too wrapped up in their own little world, be that work, relationships or whatever to see that they have a child that needs help. Same thing with a relationship - stop being lazy and selfish. Jen Arianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #40 July 7, 2004 You implied that the girl flashing at the party and getting ready to have sex with more than one guy was somehow accepted and popular in this day and age, and that the acceptance of that kind of behavior leads to more women being unfaithful to their husbands later in life. True enough there would be guys willing to take advantage, but the girl would no more accepted today than she would have been 20 years ago. Other girls would still look down on her and so would the guys who slept with her. That was my point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #41 July 7, 2004 QuoteWhere does this belief stem from?!! I guess you can call me selfish, but I want to live my life the way that I want to. QuoteIF YOU WANT SOMETHING TO WORK - YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT! Why do you want it to work? What's the benefit? QuoteJust like anything else, it takes work, compromise and honesty. Sounds like a job. I get paid to do work. I don't need to add more to my life. QuoteWhy the hell not? You've spent 20 years with someone... why not spend the next 20, 30, 40 forever with them? Something attracted you to them in the first place! Have you ever dated someone you were attracted ot and then broken up with them? Why? QuoteThis is such a selfish attitude! Its that same attitude that breeds kids going to school with guns - parents are too wrapped up in their own little world, be that work, relationships or whatever to see that they have a child that needs help. Same thing with a relationship - stop being lazy and selfish. Call it whatever you want, but I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not. I think it's much more selfish, lazy and stupid to latch onto someone for the rest of your life because you're afraid of being alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #42 July 7, 2004 So, in light of the study, what do you think? If fidelity is leaving relationships and marriage is a formal, legal relationship... what is the definition of marriage in the future? Is fidelity in relationships as expectable as chastity before marriage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #43 July 7, 2004 QuoteCall it whatever you want, but I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not. I think it's much more selfish, lazy and stupid to latch onto someone for the rest of your life because you're afraid of being alone. Maybe, but alone at 80 is probably pretty fucking lonely. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 July 7, 2004 QuoteMaybe, but alone at 80 is probably pretty fucking lonely. Maybe it is, but I don't see that as a good reason to WORK to love someone until you make it that far. Either you love someone and want to be with them or you don't. Why work at it? Life is too short. I've been in enough bad relationships that started out great to know that I'd rather be alone and lonely than miserable and tortured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #45 July 7, 2004 Well, but there is the issue of it being worth it to work at it . . . maybe you just haven't found someone that's worth it yet. *shrug* Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #46 July 7, 2004 Worth it would be someone that you don't have to work at it with. It's a catch 22. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #47 July 7, 2004 Sorry, Kev - this was direct solely at you, as this is something I've heard from MANY people. QuoteI guess you can call me selfish, but I want to live my life the way that I want to. Ok, its selfish. Very selfish. QuoteWhy do you want it to work? What's the benefit? You're kidding right? I hope you are. The benefits are too much to mention, and the pitfalls are very few, if you have that open honesty, communication and compromise that is necessary. QuoteSounds like a job. I get paid to do work. I don't need to add more to my life. I see you've never been in a relationship that means anything. There will come a time in your life when you will realize working your job has NO loyalty to you, yet a relationship does. QuoteHave you ever dated someone you were attracted ot and then broken up with them? Why? Yes. I found out he was engaged. QuoteCall it whatever you want, but I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not. I think it's much more selfish, lazy and stupid to latch onto someone for the rest of your life because you're afraid of being alone. Afraid of being alone? Yes! I'm afraid of being alone at 60 - when all my friends have their family obligations and I'm home alone. But it is not the only reason I'm married. The experiences you get in a relationship outweight the negatives if you are willing to give it a shot. That means putting someone other than yourself first, in many cases. JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #48 July 7, 2004 Everything worth having is worth working for . . . do you want to be a good skydiver? Do you have to work at it? The answer is probably yes to both. NOTHING is simple. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #49 July 7, 2004 QuoteWhere does this belief stem from?!! It truely pisses me off to read this! It comes from the fact that people change so much over the course of their life, and to find someone to love them for who they are right now and still love them for who they are in 20 years when they've changed so much from the person you originally fell in love with....well, that seems pretty darn difficult to do. It doesn't justify cheating (which just seems cowardly to me), but it explains the many divorces (which I see no real problem with unless there are children.)There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #50 July 7, 2004 QuoteWorth it would be someone that you don't have to work at it with. It's a catch 22. IMO, this is skewed. Nothing is going to rosy and wonderful 100% of the time. Ask anyone who's been married more than 20 years. My parents had 7 years of pure hell (I know I was there). Yet they're still together and over the weekend they were holding hands and cuddling like newlyweds. What a refreshing change from your type of attitude! THis attitude is very prevelant in skydiving actually. Kelly you were there one of the times - but I've had 3 different skydivers tell me that I'm going to get a divorce because my husband doesn't skydive. Why is that? For most people, they become very selfish and stop looking at the relationships "big picture" and let their little world take over. Thus a divorce happens shortly after. I can't say for sure it won't happen to me (divorce that is). But I can make for DANM sure it won't be because of skydiving. JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
