What is it with jumpers and 100-300 jumps?

[Ron 10]

I know I'll start a shit storm with this, but I have to ask.

What is it with jumpers with 100-300 jumps that makes some of them think they know it all?

I know that skydiving is an amazing sport that can bring confidence to you, but how do a few get big heads so quickly?

It reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon where Dogbert speed reads self-help books.

Most of the really good jumpers I know might be a little cocky at times, but they all listen.

What makes a new jumper 1-2 years in the sport and 100-300 jumps suddenly think he knows more than people with more jumps and more time?

Flame away...

For reasons I ask go

Here and Here

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

The good thing is that most of them who survive a few years start to understand how much they don't know. The rest, Darwin will get them.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[eeneR 3]

I have 298 jumps now....and i dont know shit!!!! I am looking forward to the continuous learning process....(guess i should fix my jump numbers too )

This sport can take your ass at any point, assuming you are good enough and no worries is asking to get yourself hurt/killed.

being humble, is key, you dont know it all, you will never know it all.....period...and those that have come before us, they too are still learning. If you chose to disregard the past, and those who have traveled it...you are destined to repeat history... my .02...

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[JoeyRamone 0]

It is call EGO....

[Hooknswoop 19]

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What is it with jumpers with 100-300 jumps that makes some of them think they know it all?

That is when have learned so much, on a very steep learning curve, but do not yet realized how little we know and how much there is yet to learn. We can pack, jump, know all the lingo, etc. We know what we know, but not what we don’t know. We have focused on leaning and cannot see how much there is to learn.

Derek

[slug 1]

Hi Ron

Sorry no flame here

IMO they just have the wisdom of youth that automatically comes with age. If their older than it's a ego thing.

If they stay around long enough (pick a number of years) then they have experienced, seen, & heard, enough to know that only their wife/mom knows it all
R.I.P.

[Ron 10]

You get those shirts yet...I sent them yesterday...Yeah I know I suck.

But they are going FedEx

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

Probably the same reason that when I teach karate I have to smack around:

1. white belts that come in with an attitude
2. certain green belts with a little skill that acquire an attitude

There are two kinds: the newbie who walks in thinking he knows more than the teacher. After getting smacked down a couple of times, he'll either leave with a bruised ego, or come back in without the ego, ready to learn. some of these guys have become my best students, because, they realize that if I can toss them around, I probably can really teach them something useful.

The other kind is the mid-rank. This person has acquired a few skills, and they know they're better than the people just starting. Because they're able to outspar (or outswoop or whatever) the newbies, they start to get false confidence. Apply same solution as you would with a newbie. Beat on them enough to let them know that while they may have mastered some things, you have mastered more and have more experience. Proceed with smackdown. They will either come back ready to listen, or they won't come back. Regardless, they will have learned that no matter how much they know, there's always someone out there who knows more.

It's important to note that not everyone has an attitude... there's no reason to smack around most students in a karate school, and there's no reason to verbally smack down all newbie skydivers. I consider Smackdown as a last-resort type tactic to be used when reason and civil conversation fail.

[headoverheels 333]

They know more about skydiving than 99.9% of the population. Their wuffo friends see them as really advanced skydivers, so why should they be held back?

[skyyhi 0]

Oh Ron, this is soooo true. . .I have seen it so many times. There was a guy this weekend (low jump numbers, high winds, already has landing issues as it is) trying to do something that was beyond his skill level. Luckily nothing happened to him but it could have been disasterous.

Sometimes Egos kill people. Take heed. I always do. . .and for those of you who have given me advice, please do not stop.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Luv2Fall 0]

You'll find that in just about any endeavor of some type.

[CrazyIvan 0]

The only thing I know is that I don't know shit.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Ron 10]

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You'll find that in just about any endeavor of some type.

I have done a lot of other sports and activities...But this one seems more prone to it.

1. I know its a high risk/high reward sport.

2. I know that once people get comfertable with it and start pushing it it is easy to think of yourself as an expert...This is more so since like another poster said that even an "A" licensed jumper is better than 99% of the population.

But my question that seems specific to this sport is why people don't listen to guys with much more experience?

Kris had a good point about slamming a student that refuses to listen in martial arts training. I did it when I taught years ago.....So what is the skydiving equivalent to poping a "know it all " upside the head?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Luv2Fall 0]

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You'll find that in just about any endeavor of some type.

I have done a lot of other sports and activities...But this one seems more prone to it.

1. I know its a high risk/high reward sport.

2. I know that once people get comfertable with it and start pushing it it is easy to think of yourself as an expert...This is more so since like another poster said that even an "A" licensed jumper is better than 99% of the population.

But my question that seems specific to this sport is why people don't listen to guys with much more experience?

Kris had a good point about slamming a student that refuses to listen in martial arts training. I did it when I taught years ago.....So what is the skydiving equivalent to poping a "know it all " upside the head?

I agree........this sport is more prone to it. I like Kris's method of dealing with those type of students. As to why in this sport? I really don't know.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

In some cases the egos of some people do get in the way. But I believe that in most cases what you are seeing here is that as people make more jumps and gain more experience they become more comfortable with the jumping environment. It's not easy to tell someone who's been in the sport a year or two and who's made X number of hundreds of jumps that they haven't grown up yet. Because according to the X jump wonders, they aren't newbies to the sport. Plus in some cases, the X jump wonder people have a natural talent and in some cases, these people you speak of may just be a tad on the lucky side (personally I think I fall into both categories). I could be wrong, but I truly believe that there is no single formula which can be applied to everyone. Jump numbers alone are not an indication of skill and neither is time in the sport. Is someone who's made 500 jumps over a five year period a better skydiver than someone who's made 500 jumps in a one or a two year period? My generic answer would be "No", the more current person is likely to have more skill. But there is no right answer to this question as we are all different and some people actually are very good despite their lack of time or lack of jumps. But I'm sure in most cases, the people with less experience and less jumps aren't as good as they may think they are. I do believe that the longer people are in the sport, the more experience they will gain just as the more jumps someone makes, the more experience they will gain. But once again, there really is no right answer which can be applied to everyone.

People do need to realize that we are engaged in a dangerous activity and even the so-called ultra experienced people are capable of making mistakes and messing themselves up. So if the ultra experienced people can mess up, then the lesser talented experienced people can also mess up. We are all human (except for Clay's SOs) and are all capable of making mistakes.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Clownburner 0]

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So what is the skydiving equivalent to poping a "know it all " upside the head?

Sometimes, Gravity does exactly that.

I don't really know how you can do it, because almost any verbal exchange will be met defensively by one of these little ego kids.

As for me, I know I don't know much. I do know that I know enough to occasionally offer useful tips to 20-50 jump newbies, when they're working on something I got, I try to tell them how I got it. I don't claim to be an expert. I always try to listen when people tell me something useful that might help me.

Occasionally I get frustrated with people who tell me the same thing over and over again the same way. I try very hard not to come across as a know it all, but sometimes I just have to say "Yes, thanks, I got that part." I may not be able to get my body to do it yet, but I got the theory the first five times. I know they're being helpful and I try not to be 'attitudinal' towards them and thank them for their help. If they have another way to explain it that might help me get it, I am always anxious to listen and learn.

Hopefully this doesn't make me one of these 100-300 jump brats.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Ron 10]

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I agree........this sport is more prone to it. I like Kris's method of dealing with those type of students. As to why in this sport? I really don't know.

OK so what is the skydiving equivalent to taking a students ego down a few notches?

You can't hit them...It would serve nothing.

Black listing is an option...But that tends to push people away instead of making them listen.

So how can you get a know it all to listen?

So far I just try to warn them, thell them they are fucking up, then when they don't listen I wiat till:

A. They get hurt...At which point I bring up the fact we all knew they were gonna get hurt.

B. Get enough jumps that the start to agree they were stupid.

Both take time, and one requires pain.

So, really what can someone do to get people to listen?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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I do believe that the longer people are in the sport, the more experience they will gain just as the more jumps someone makes, the more experience they will gain.

The funny thing is I remember these arguments with you.....

You have gotten TONS more experience since then...And I have noticed your attitude has changed...Have you noticed it?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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You have gotten TONS more experience since then...And I have noticed your attitude has changed...Have you noticed it?

For sure my attitude has changed. It's all part of growing up in this sport.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ryoder 1,590]

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Kris had a good point about slamming a student that refuses to listen in martial arts training. I did it when I taught years ago.....So what is the skydiving equivalent to poping a "know it all " upside the head?

Well you could "gift-wrap" them like Swoop did in "Drop Zone", but then you would run the risk having your DZO actually slam you upside your head.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[flyangel2 2]

<-----See my numbers, I know everything

And yes, Steve has really grown over the years. He's so easy to hang out with now

BTW, Steve, I got a package for you that I tried to give you last Friday night when I was at the DZ meeting Phil and Michael. You had already left, and missed out on a few beers and chips.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Clownburner 0]

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So far I just try to warn them, thell them they are fucking up, then when they don't listen I wiat till:

A. They get hurt...At which point I bring up the fact we all knew they were gonna get hurt.

B. Get enough jumps that the start to agree they were stupid.

Both take time, and one requires pain.

Sparky is always saying the only two real teachers are pain and repetition. The more pain, the less repetition is required.

Unfortunately, part of the problem with these people is that they WON'T listen, so nothing you tell them is going to sink in.

Even if you put together an instructional video of really nasty skydiving accidents that were preventable, and made them watch it, it wouldn't work. It never did for driver's ed. "That won't happen to me" is the rule of the day with some people. I wish there was something as simple as applying a clue-by-four to their head that would get the point across before they end up in a hospital or a casket.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Rdy2skydive 0]

I don't know what you're talking about.

Most people that I know with about 100-200 jumps knows all there is to know about skydiving. They're experts on canopy flight, RW formations, judging the winds, etc. Most of the time they know more than the instructors with thousands of jumps - at least that's what they tell me.

I'm in awe of their amazing abilities. As for me, I'm still learning on every jump, and the more I jump, the more I realize I don't know shit. But that's just me.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Kris had a good point about slamming a student that refuses to listen in martial arts training. I did it when I taught years ago.....So what is the skydiving equivalent to poping a "know it all " upside the head?

Fill the cells of their canopy with rice

Of course if they're really bad won't do any good. Saw it done to someone once and he never even knew it, because he never looked up to check his canopy after opening

[Ron 10]

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For sure my attitude has changed. It's all part of growing up in this sport.

what made it change?

For me it was almost getting killed by a fast moving planet.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334